1.8T belt disaster - Page 9

WillyHeckaslike · 2nd August 2017, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovel

Have you ever been tempted to removed the spacer plates which determine the force available on the liners from the end of the head gasket. I haven't done it, but I'm surprised someone hasn't tried it to give a better clamping force on the liners

At least one k-series gasket was made without them and compression force on the fire rings in that case was limited in the traditional way. Without the compression limiters the fire rings on both the sls and the mls gasket would be at risk of crushing rather than compression and that carries a risk of early if not immediate failure - but I think that you already know that.

No. 4 is often the main problem in a dropped-liner situation so one shim would be nice as a fix but they tend to be sold in sets of four. A group buy could resolve this. Looking on ebay a set of four can currently be had for ~ £34 delivered so that would be ~ £8.50 a shim excluding p&p for the person organising to repost them. I would expect that reposting could be done for the cost of a 2nd-class postage stamp so in total a little more than ~£9 for a single shim.

minimutly · 2nd August 2017, 16:47

I don't think many of these would get sold, dropped liners is a symptom of severe overheating, which brings other issues, usually rendering the engine scrap. Also the liners tilt twards the exhaust side, so will never be right, shim or no.
I have skimmed the top of a block at an angle to correct this, engine hasn't run yet so not sure how succesful it will be long term....

kaiser · 2nd August 2017, 17:43

Also the liners tilt twards the exhaust side, so will never be right, shim or no.

?????

Lovel · 2nd August 2017, 19:34

If the liners do tilt towards the exhaust side then the fact that they run along the axis of the crankshaft will have very little effect and hence not be detrimental to the piston con rod or big end bearings scrubbing. Two engines I have rebuilt with liner shims, 1 of them 3 years ago (celestial blue) is still running and the 2nd was also built three years ago but ended up in scrapyard last year due to skint owner, corroded brake pipes and rear arms.
Perhaps for a race engine but on a road going car I have so far not seen any detrimental issues withe the liner shims, but again I am talking about engines that have not been seriously overheated with little liner sinking, because if it gets to stage where liner sinks in realms of .006" then I would not consider it even if you could get shims to give you .009", this is seen if you have to drive the liner out then you may as well go for replacing the block with known good version.

WillyHeckaslike · 4th August 2017, 07:56

I think the SAIC gasket is without the compression limiters as used on the SLS and the MLS. Click

But that is not the one I was referring to earlier, there is a much earlier UK gasket that is also minus those limiters. Click

minimutly · 4th August 2017, 21:14

Why???? Kaiser?
Which bit is difficult? My point is that once they do tilt shimming them just lifts them at the same angle, which still compromises sealing. No issues with pistons, rings or anything else. Hence skimming the block at an angle to compensate.

Shide · 3rd September 2017, 12:24

A quick update on this. I have removed the water pump and lower timing cover and it's the usual story, three or four missing studs.

kaiser · 3rd September 2017, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimutly

Why???? Kaiser?
Which bit is difficult? My point is that once they do tilt shimming them just lifts them at the same angle, which still compromises sealing. No issues with pistons, rings or anything else. Hence skimming the block at an angle to compensate.

I don't think they lean to the exhaust side.
But please show me where you have that from.

minimutly · 3rd September 2017, 20:20

Can't really show you kaiser, since it' simply my experience, every time these overheat, the liners sink and tilt towards the exhaust, measured by flat bar and feeler gauge.
I believe it makes sense, since the exhaust side of the chamber is the hottest, the inlet being cooled by fuel and relatively cool air. I allways wonder what it would look like inside one of these engines when this is going on - glowing liners, pistons losing chunks of themselves, driving itself into destruction.

Shide · 19th September 2017, 13:03

I'm in need of the three panels covering the can belt. Lower section and top two back and front plus any set screws to make headway with this. Any one out there have these parts?

2nd August 2017, 17:43	#83
kaiser This is my second home 75 Tourer 2.5 Auto, 1.8T, 75V8ZT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Johannesburg ZA Posts: 6,200 Thanks: 1 Thanked 859 Times in 613 Posts	Also the liners tilt twards the exhaust side, so will never be right, shim or no. ????? __________________ Worth his V8 in gold

4th August 2017, 21:14	#86
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	Why???? Kaiser? Which bit is difficult? My point is that once they do tilt shimming them just lifts them at the same angle, which still compromises sealing. No issues with pistons, rings or anything else. Hence skimming the block at an angle to compensate. Last edited by minimutly; 4th August 2017 at 21:17..

3rd September 2017, 12:24	#87
Shide Avid contributor Rover 75 1.8T Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Ash Vale Posts: 133 Thanks: 5 Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts	Update A quick update on this. I have removed the water pump and lower timing cover and it's the usual story, three or four missing studs.

19th September 2017, 13:03	#90
Shide Avid contributor Rover 75 1.8T Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Ash Vale Posts: 133 Thanks: 5 Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts	Update I'm in need of the three panels covering the can belt. Lower section and top two back and front plus any set screws to make headway with this. Any one out there have these parts?

2nd August 2017, 16:47	#82
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	I don't think many of these would get sold, dropped liners is a symptom of severe overheating, which brings other issues, usually rendering the engine scrap. Also the liners tilt twards the exhaust side, so will never be right, shim or no. I have skimmed the top of a block at an angle to correct this, engine hasn't run yet so not sure how succesful it will be long term....

2nd August 2017, 19:34	#84
Lovel I really should get out more....... P6B, L550, Imp, F56, Commando Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 2,886 Thanks: 352 Thanked 677 Times in 440 Posts	If the liners do tilt towards the exhaust side then the fact that they run along the axis of the crankshaft will have very little effect and hence not be detrimental to the piston con rod or big end bearings scrubbing. Two engines I have rebuilt with liner shims, 1 of them 3 years ago (celestial blue) is still running and the 2nd was also built three years ago but ended up in scrapyard last year due to skint owner, corroded brake pipes and rear arms. Perhaps for a race engine but on a road going car I have so far not seen any detrimental issues withe the liner shims, but again I am talking about engines that have not been seriously overheated with little liner sinking, because if it gets to stage where liner sinks in realms of .006" then I would not consider it even if you could get shims to give you .009", this is seen if you have to drive the liner out then you may as well go for replacing the block with known good version.

4th August 2017, 07:56	#85
WillyHeckaslike This is my second home Rovers 75 & 25 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Wearside Posts: 4,522 Thanks: 543 Thanked 709 Times in 511 Posts	I think the SAIC gasket is without the compression limiters as used on the SLS and the MLS. Click But that is not the one I was referring to earlier, there is a much earlier UK gasket that is also minus those limiters. Click

3rd September 2017, 20:20	#89
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	Can't really show you kaiser, since it' simply my experience, every time these overheat, the liners sink and tilt towards the exhaust, measured by flat bar and feeler gauge. I believe it makes sense, since the exhaust side of the chamber is the hottest, the inlet being cooled by fuel and relatively cool air. I allways wonder what it would look like inside one of these engines when this is going on - glowing liners, pistons losing chunks of themselves, driving itself into destruction.