Metal Thermostat Installed

[GaryC]

I've fitted one of Kaiser's 'stats and have noticed no difference in fuel consumption whatsoever. I do mainly long motorway journey's anyway with my 2.5 ltr and get a consistant 26-28 mpg, it's the sort of journey a V6 should be doing!
I towed a 1400kg caravan in 28-30 degrees last week and i averaged 27 mpg overall for the 330 miles towing and 360 odd miles solo..
I've been well impressed with the car and with Kaiser's mod..
G

[MikeHurley]

Thanks for the feedback on the mpg. Has you Temp needle been at 9am all the time or did it dip down towards 8am. I am assuming that you dont use the OBD means of viewing your temperature ie test 19 sub test 7 where you see the actual coolant temp by the Thermostat.
Either way glad you are happy with the performance of the product, it is indeed robust.

M

[GaryC]

Originally Posted by MikeHurley

Thanks for the feedback on the mpg. Has you Temp needle been at 9am all the time or did it dip down towards 8am. I am assuming that you dont use the OBD means of viewing your temperature ie test 19 sub test 7 where you see the actual coolant temp by the Thermostat.
Either way glad you are happy with the performance of the product, it is indeed robust.

M

My needle stays put in all temperatures, at the 9 o'clock position. My car has now been through a severe winter, -16 degrees and recently +28 degrees and the needle didn't move from it's normal position.
When i first fitted the 'stat i took it for a run and had a temperature readings of 88 to 94 degrees, whilst stationary the fan cut in around 104 ish and shut off at around the 90 mark.
All temperature sensors are not exactly the same, they all have tolerances and i feel mine is working ok.

[T-Cut]

Originally Posted by GaryC

My needle stays put in all temperatures, at the 9 o'clock position. My car has now been through a severe winter, -16 degrees and recently +28 degrees and the needle didn't move from it's normal position.

With a range of 75-115C, the 'normal' position covers up a multitude of sins (so to speak).

TC

[MikeHurley]

Could not agree more with you T-Cut.
I will get to the bottom of this Calorstat Thermostat and its behaviour in more temperate climates like the UK.

Will be getting my hands on a couple of "Calorstats" in the near future, and will be trying to ascertain whether or not to have a small 1mm hole in the Upper disc or non at all, (compared to the 5mm hole- which I fully appreciate the advantages of ie By Pass, Anti Thermal Shock, air lock proofing etc).

All this with the aim of having OBD Temps in the region of say 80c - 96c which I trust everyone considers is the norm for V6's.

I am trying to prompt V6 users with Metal housings to use the OBD Test 19 Sub Test 7 to feedback the actual Temp ranges they are experiencing, because the non plastic housing is excellent.

M

[T-Cut]

Originally Posted by MikeHurley

All this with the aim of having OBD Temps in the region of say 80c - 96c which I trust everyone considers is the norm for V6's.

I know I'm in a minority on this but the optimum running temperature for petrol and diesels is 95-105C. Even the oft decried temperature gauge says 115C is the upper edge of 'normal'. On the V6, temperature should be trimmed to 95-100C by the slow speed fan system. So, it's clearly designed to be bang on the nail. The underlying trouble with all these cars is the thermostat and hydraulics of a sieve. The cooling system would be perfect if the stats/pipework were robust. The most reliable system IMO is the PRT arrangement, which keeps the 1.8s bang on the money. Just changing gear has a visible effect on the temperature as the water pump slows or speeds up, trimming the coolant flow by pressurising the diaphragm. A 1.8PRT will run all day in any weather at 95-105C. No matter how much heat is generated by any of these engines, the radiator/fan system is more than able to cope. The trouble is, it rarely gets the chance.

TC

[Jules]

Thanks for your research & persistence on these inserts Mike.

T-cut, is there any evidence that Diesel owners benefit with increased MPG by raising the running temp over the designed 88C?
With a fully functioning OEM Stat typical parameters are pretty steady at 87-91C

[T-Cut]

I've researched a few international diesel forums and as here, I noticed frequent discussion about running temperature. Also on the 'trade' forums, hauliers, etc. talk about it and they all agree that 100C or so is optimal for fuel efficiency. The hauliers need every 0.1mpg they can get of course.

I've no idea why the M47 stat is only rated at 88C when it would presumably improve things if it was set to say 95C. The petrol engines also have an 88C stat, but they all run near 95-100C as a rule. The reasons why are well known, so why wasn't the diesel made a special case? There's more than enough cooling capacity with all the engines to cope with any running temperature you want and of course the hotter that is, the more effective the cooling system becomes (delta T).

TC

EDIT: This is worth a read through: http://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=186

For reference, 195F = 90C, 203F = 95C

[Prometheus]

Hello T-cut.

I saw your requests for more data on the metal thermostat from other countries. I'm from the Netherlands and today i did a little run on this mothers day.

Outside temperature 23 C to 25 C

Staring up temp 29c to 51 C idle on driveway waiting for SWMBO to get into the car and set up sat nav and such.

Drive will be distance driven then the running temp with an averige speed for that section
Distance TEMP Averige speed Remarks
0km 51c 0kph Left home
2.5KM 75c 30kph
4 KM 80C 80KPH STart of highway
7.5km 88C 120 KPH running on highway
10km 88C 140kph overtaking
15km 88C 130kph Cruising
20km 90C 140kph Cruising
25km 89/90c 130kph Crusing
30km 89C 120kph
35km 89/90c 100kph
40km 89c 80kmhkph
45km 88C 70kph
50km 91C 40kph

Statistics taken from the run

Overal averige run 75KPH
Distance traveled 50.5Km
Total time 38.00 minutes
Actual driving time 34 minutes
Stopped time (traffic lights etc) 4 minutes
Averige speed actual driving 86 KPH
Temparature end of drive 25 C (outside temp)
Temparature engine shut off when parking Highest noted 98C

When leaving the highway and comming to a stop at traffic lights or roundabout Let go of throttle and leave in gear the temp runs down from 89 to say 85 C. When idle at traffic light temp rises normal

When driving around town stopping and starting to drive around at 50KPH temp at idle will be at like 93 while waiting then within 200 yards driving be back at 88 89C

Drove back today too din't keep record but had the IPK on and noticed whatever the speed 150 160 120 110 i would be around 90ish C up and down 2 deg both sides. It always seems to want to settle the temp around the 88 89 C. If you accelerate from 100 to 120 the temp will rise from 88 to say 90 then keep driving 120 and the temp will start to drop again to 88.

Overall i do have noticed more mayo on my oil cap since fitting the kaiser stat. I do run short journy's a lot but it's gotten worse after getting the kaiser stat. Id say if we can get the temp up about 7 to 8 C on the stats it will be super. Enhough protection on the High temp side and enhough of an averige running temp to keep the engine nice and hot.

During this cold winter however it would take about 30 minutes for the car to warm up and was NOT funny. Seriously lacking in that department for sure. I'm guessing this system is set up for HOT running countries and not Northern/western europe.

We need to find a solution for this.

Hope this helps

PrometheusNL

[MikeHurley]

Have just been for a 35 mile trip initially on Urban roads for about 7 miles then on motorway quality roads

Before starting off checked Coolant Level and topped up with about 1/2 pint, to get on Max mark in expansion tank.

Outside Temp = 20c

OBD Test 19 Sub Test 7 = Temp Range 88c-94c (mostly in the 88-89c range)

General Speed Range = 50-70mph

Final Temp as speed reduced to 40-30mph, before parking up = 94-104c

Parked up checked under the bonnet,evidence of excess water having been expelled from Cap (not the little overflow elbow), hoses felt pressurised, slight hissing sound from cap area, even with new Viton rings.

Like Prometheus, checked under Oil cap and evidence of increased mayo, dip Stick clean and free of mayo, so will be watching out. Curious as to where such moisture would be coming from, I know it has been humid over the last 2 days!

M


(I know I need to fit the Jules Resistor upgrade when it arrives, which should have the slow speed fan kick in at 100c)