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Old 15th May 2014, 07:56   #21
Supervinnie40
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Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
The MG Rover wiring diagram shows two accessory sockets, labelled 'front' and 'rear'. I'm not sure what these are but they're both supplied by relays with the coils being energised by the car's ignition switch in the 'auxiliary' position. Neither the BCU nor any other ECUs appear to be involved. Do you have a different circuit Vinnie?

Simon
That's why I used (for example: ). Because I'm not sure on the proper order of the circuit. I hoped you'd get the gist of what I tried to say.

From what I read in your text, it would seem that this system wouldn't get close to any of the on-board computers, but can only work with the key on (at least) accessoires. Otherwise the relays don't get powered and the electricity can't reach the battery. However, I do have an aux socket in the boot that's directly connected to the car battery, without any circuitry in between (only a fuse). That should work in any case. But since it's in the boot I'd still need to get out of the car .
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Old 15th May 2014, 08:06   #22
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Originally Posted by Supervinnie40 View Post
... I do have an aux socket in the boot that's directly connected to the car battery ...
Is that original MGR equipment Vinnie or an aftermarket accessory?

Simon
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Old 15th May 2014, 08:20   #23
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Two batteries of the same type and condition connected, will perfectly equalize their charges given time. They will behave exactly like two buckets of water connected with a pipe at the bottom.
It is physically impossible to have anything else.
Current will flow until the charge density is equal in both batteries, at which state the voltage will be the same.
That is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make, batteries are nothing like buckets in their behavior, they need an excess of voltage to make the current flow. As said, even a good fully charged batteries voltage is only around 12.7v. Have you ever come across a battery charger which only outputs 12.7v? The answer to which is no and the reason being that at 12.7v no charge current can possibly flow.

Try this simple experiment....

Connect one flat and one fully charged battery together, via an ammeter. You will get a small initial current flow as the voltage on the two batteries equalise, then there will be no further flow at all, nothing at all, zilch. The reason being that their is no voltage differential between the batteries to make the current flow from one to the other.

If you have a bank of batteries connected in parallel, standard practice is to do what is called an equalising charge occasionally. The batteries are left on charge for an extended period, to ensure all of the batteries are brought up to a fully charged state. The reason for that equalising charge is that the low batteries cannot be charged from the fully charged batteries, because they lack the voltage to transfer their charge.

Once again - batteries are not buckets, nor do they behave like buckets! The public are being fooled by the sellers of these items and if you doubt that you only need read the many reviews which confirm they do not work.
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Old 15th May 2014, 08:27   #24
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However, I do have an aux socket in the boot that's directly connected to the car battery, without any circuitry in between (only a fuse). That should work in any case. But since it's in the boot I'd still need to get out of the car .
That would work fine, to keep a battery topped up in the boot, to a full charge. I have done that myself. The small size of the wiring and the resistance helps prevent large currents flowing back to the main battery, yet it will be big enough to allow the battery to be restored to a full charge. I would suggest adding an extra fuse, very close to the battery.
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Old 15th May 2014, 08:31   #25
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Is that original MGR equipment Vinnie or an aftermarket accessory?

Simon
Aftermarket. I couldn't find a MG or Rover part or wiring loom for this, even though I heard some tourers have it.
I just bought a double 12v socket from Conrad and pulled the wires through the car into the boot. Apart from it giving power to whatever you want, I use 1 socket to power my sub in the boot.

(I replaced the screws for smaller black ones)
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Old 15th May 2014, 08:42   #26
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Is that original MGR equipment Vinnie or an aftermarket accessory?
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Originally Posted by Supervinnie40 View Post
Aftermarket.
O.K. I think it's important that you make this clear. Your original posting simply refered to the "auxiliary socket". Not all cars have these; mine certainly hasn't and I haven't seen an OEM type in any other cars. I'd like to hear from anyone who has one, noting that I'm not talking about the cigar lighter or the torch recharging socket (MGR accessory) which are shown separately on the wiring diagram.

Simon
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Old 15th May 2014, 12:11   #27
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If the battery just did not have quite enough power by the time you connected that useless thing and waited 15 minutes you could have got a push from some passers by anb be home but only if its a manual
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Old 15th May 2014, 13:13   #28
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Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT View Post
That is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make, batteries are nothing like buckets in their behavior, they need an excess of voltage to make the current flow. As said, even a good fully charged batteries voltage is only around 12.7v. Have you ever come across a battery charger which only outputs 12.7v? The answer to which is no and the reason being that at 12.7v no charge current can possibly flow.

Try this simple experiment....

Connect one flat and one fully charged battery together, via an ammeter. You will get a small initial current flow as the voltage on the two batteries equalise, then there will be no further flow at all, nothing at all, zilch. The reason being that their is no voltage differential between the batteries to make the current flow from one to the other.

If you have a bank of batteries connected in parallel, standard practice is to do what is called an equalising charge occasionally. The batteries are left on charge for an extended period, to ensure all of the batteries are brought up to a fully charged state. The reason for that equalising charge is that the low batteries cannot be charged from the fully charged batteries, because they lack the voltage to transfer their charge.

Once again - batteries are not buckets, nor do they behave like buckets! The public are being fooled by the sellers of these items and if you doubt that you only need read the many reviews which confirm they do not work.
There is a direct correlation between the voltage measured and the charge of the battery. Two batteries of the same type and the same condition, yet one charged and one not, would display two different voltages.
If you would care to go and verify that from any graph depicting charge vs voltage, you could perhaps go and look at the link in the previous post?
It is perfectly sensible to expect two batteries connected together to equalize their charges, and that is indeed what happens.
What would be unreasonable, is to expect the one battery to charge the other fully, and I have never claimed that. What I have claimed, and what is indeed true, is that if you connect another battery, that is charged to your discharged car battery, that a flow will go from the charged battery into the uncharged battery and that will persist, until the voltage difference is nil.

So the case is, in this story, it will help to connect any other battery with a higher charge to your car battery.
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Old 15th May 2014, 13:32   #29
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If the battery just did not have quite enough power by the time you connected that useless thing and waited 15 minutes you could have got a push from some passers by anb be home but only if its a manual
Lol, you obviously haven't spend much time in NL . We can be friendly and nice towards tourist, but most of us are **** towards other Dutchies. And I like to be prepared for emergency situation being as little dependent on others as possible. And I had this thing still lying around, just didn't feel comfortable using it without checking here.

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Originally Posted by SD1too View Post
O.K. I think it's important that you make this clear. Your original posting simply refered to the "auxiliary socket". Not all cars have these; mine certainly hasn't and I haven't seen an OEM type in any other cars. I'd like to hear from anyone who has one, noting that I'm not talking about the cigar lighter or the torch recharging socket (MGR accessory) which are shown separately on the wiring diagram.

Simon
The fist time I mentioned the aux socket I did refer to the socket in the dash (I guess you could also use the socket in the armrest if you have one), but in the later post I referred to my aux socket in the boot and I did say that mine is connected directly to the battery in the car, without any circuitry in between (only a fuse).
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Old 15th May 2014, 13:36   #30
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...
It might be helpfull for the discussion if you mention voltage, ampere or watts when you say 'charge'. Not 100% about English, but in the Dutch language 'charge' can mean either voltage, ampere or watts.
(for the smartypants; I know power is voltage x ampere ).
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