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Old 28th February 2014, 18:31   #11
Moonshine Mark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "Big Blue" View Post
After nearly 18 months of ownership, it is showing all the signs of HGF.
"It's a V6, it can't be HGF" I hear you say....

But the symptoms are as follows:
Mayo in the filler cap
Using coolant.
When coolant level goes down, oil level goes up - some oil blowing out of the dipstick.
Mayo in the breather pipes.
Pink staining on the front bank spark plugs. (rear bank not inspected)

None of this appears to be affecting performance, but the coolant usage and visible mayo is increasing, so it's only a matter of time until it gets worse.
I'm sure people will say HGF never happens to V6's however apart from the dipstick blowing out your symptoms sound the same as when the Head Gasket went on my 190

When you say there is Mayo in the filler cap is it a significant amount? If you run your finger along the inside of the Rocker Cover is that full of Mayo as well?

My car had no loss of performance and didn't even over heat.

As has already been suggested it is worth having the Oil Cooler looked at as a first step, it is much cheaper than fixing the Head Gaskets.
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Old 1st March 2014, 13:36   #12
"Big Blue"
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Thanks for all the replies so far.

There's definitely oil and coolant mixing, as can be seen from the filler cap, (not quite as drastic as Swiss Tony's yet...) and the amount of sludge that came out of the breather pipes when I took them off do do another job (replacing the front fuel rail after a leak). See pics below:




There is also a lot of sludge inside the rocker cover if I run my finger around the inside of the oil filler hole. So it looks like it's one of the following: 1) IMG 2) Failed Oil Cooler 3) HGF

The next step is to find out which it is, when I get a couple of days when I can go without a car...

I imagine if it's one of the first two, then I will get it fixed - if it's the 3rd, then I will need to consider cost of repairing my engine vs cost of replacement (2nd hand) engine of unknown history vs real cost of replacing the car. It may end up going as spares or repair if the HG has failed

In terms of replacement options - £9k would see me into a 4 year old 320i, which if I kept for 2-3 years would still have about £4k residual value, so my real costs would be financing it (borrowing £5k = £200 a month over 2 years with the other £4k from savings) and running it. This would save £1k a year on fuel vs the ZT (44 vs 25MPG at the expense of only 20 BHP), and £140 on 12 months tax. (call it £100 a month all in).
I've also been spending on average £105 a month (£1800 in 17 months) since I bought the ZT on maintenance (Belts, x4 tyres, rear brakes, x2 MOT's, cooling pack, rear coil springs in the space of 17 months!), before any costs to repair this latest issue are factored in - that would mean I could be in a 7 year newer car of approx the same mileage. Scary maths!

If this was viewed as just a piece of capital equipment, it'd be a no-brainer. But somehow it isn't...
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'03 ZT 190, Trophy Blue, 71k miles and fighting for it's life...
'85 944, Many shades of red, mileage unknown!
11 (61) Octavia VRS TDI, 74k miles

Last edited by "Big Blue"; 10th March 2014 at 20:01..
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Old 1st March 2014, 15:30   #13
Moonshine Mark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "Big Blue" View Post

The next step is to find out which it is, when I get a couple of days when I can go without a car...

I imagine if it's one of the first two, then I will get it fixed - if it's the 3rd, then I will need to consider cost of repairing my engine vs cost of replacement (2nd hand) engine of unknown history vs real cost of replacing the car. It may end up going as spares or repair if the HG has failed
If the Head Gasket has failed then I would fix the existing engine, not go down the engine replacement route.

I replaced the engine on my car after HGF but also as a camshaft had failed. To be honest I now wish I'd taken the time to strip down and fix the original engine as the car ran perfectly for 4 days before the replacement engine suffered big end failure. The car is now awaiting a 2nd engine replacement which will happen in the next few weeks.

Yes I could go out and buy something newer but there's nothing to say that won't have repair bills as well. Including purchase price, 2 engine changes and servicing my ZT will still be half the price of the 320i quoted
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Old 17th March 2014, 21:03   #14
"Big Blue"
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Update!

I've had "Big Blue" looked at by an ex-MGR mechanic, who can't see any obvious signs of HGF - Compression was good, no exhaust gas in coolant apparently the mayo was not excessive ("normal for the engine" - although I haven't noticed any before...), and apart from a bubbling in the coolant on first start, no other evidence of HGF.

So based on that I'm just going to carry on and keep an eye on things.

There was however some evidence of K-seal in the coolant, so maybe there's an issue there (blockage?) causing the level to go up and down and the bubbling on start up?
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'03 ZT 190, Trophy Blue, 71k miles and fighting for it's life...
'85 944, Many shades of red, mileage unknown!
11 (61) Octavia VRS TDI, 74k miles
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Old 17th March 2014, 23:16   #15
alanjay
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Default It's a catch twentytwo dilemna.

There comes a time in every car's life when you think do I repair or get another car.
My rule of thumb has always been, add to the cost of repair the extra cash needed to buy the replacement car.
Then look at how much the replacement car will depreciate in a year.
More often than not it's cheaper to repair your existing car.
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Old 18th March 2014, 09:26   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanjay View Post
There comes a time in every car's life when you think do I repair or get another car.
My rule of thumb has always been, add to the cost of repair the extra cash needed to buy the replacement car.
Then look at how much the replacement car will depreciate in a year.
More often than not it's cheaper to repair your existing car.
A good formula which many people ignore!
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Old 18th March 2014, 20:43   #17
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try to hang on to it, i bought mine cheap but boy oh boy did it need money spend on it and to be honest, its still on going but i know i not get a car this quality again
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Old 19th March 2014, 19:55   #18
"Big Blue"
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The plan now is to keep it and tidy a few bits up, It was a close run thing, but I'm glad it's still here
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'03 ZT 190, Trophy Blue, 71k miles and fighting for it's life...
'85 944, Many shades of red, mileage unknown!
11 (61) Octavia VRS TDI, 74k miles
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Old 17th August 2015, 16:39   #19
"Big Blue"
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Default Holy thread revival! 18 months on, still facing an uncertain future...

Well 18 months on from the last post on this thread, and things have moved on somewhat, however Big Blue's future still hangs in the balance.

I continued to use my 190 for the rest of 2014, despite the increasing levels of coolant usage. This reached the point where the expansion bottle could be emptied within 300 miles of driving. The car has now covered 71500 miles from new - barely run in!

I had also changed jobs, at the same company but working different hours, meaning I faced an 80 mile round trip daily, and was expecting my first child - born yesterday (16/8/15) . As a result my needs changed, and I now find myself the owner of "Big Blue II"; a 61 plate Skoda Octavia VRS estate.

As I now had a new car, it was time to work out what to do with the original Big Blue, which now sat parked on my drive.
As things stand, apart from the (suspected) HGF issues, it has MOT until January, still drives spot on, but needs new front discs and pads (the wear light came on the last time I used it - perfect timing!), the exhaust is hitting the underside again (not beyond the wit of man to fix) and has an advisory for a tie rod end ball joint (easy cheap fix). I have also fitted a gold resistor to the replacement fan, so that is functioning correctly.

I arranged for it to visit M&G in Bradford, as they were recommended by my best mate, who used them for some big jobs on his ZS 180 Mk2 (Before he stuffed it into a Merc!) They confirmed that it was most likely HGF.

To cut a long story short, I have decided that as the car is effectively "doomed" anyway if it is HGF, that I would take it apart and see how bad it was, and whether the engine was repairable. (after all, it's worth no less in scrap as a non-runner, surely?).

The intent is to take a look, and as long as there is nothing horrific such as a cracked head or block, have a go at rebuilding it.

Here are some pics from the "autopsy" so far:

Still looks the part:


Awaiting it's fate at M&G:


This is what the engine bay once looked like:


All 6 spark plugs had this pink staining:


A pile of parts soon began to build:


The IMG didn't appear to look too bad:


Some mayo around the filler cap, otherwise just black sludge:


The engine bay now looks like this:


I'm at the point where I need to take the timing belts apart. Unfortunately the kit I bought doesn't appear to have the correct bits for the 190 cams - GRR! Looks like I may just have to do without...

With any luck, I can get this back together and up and running again...
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'03 ZT 190, Trophy Blue, 71k miles and fighting for it's life...
'85 944, Many shades of red, mileage unknown!
11 (61) Octavia VRS TDI, 74k miles
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Old 17th August 2015, 18:33   #20
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I think these cars are 'buy with your heart' cars, so doing the maths on a ten a penny but very nice BMW 320i is easy and will always work out a winner rationally.

All depends on what you want and what would make you happy
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