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Old 21st January 2019, 17:13   #11
macafee2
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I had a coming together with someone with the same insurance company but did not have any issues. The other party was held responsible

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Old 21st January 2019, 17:49   #12
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Likewise, both with tesco, no hassle at all from the insurance company.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 10:20   #13
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I agree with your suggestion about phoning the police. And your comment about rear facing dash cams..............I have one in the back and front. When /if those behind seem to notice the camera in the rear, they tend to back off.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 13:47   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mss View Post
If it keeps you happy.

But, I will say that you seem to have a misunderstanding of the basics of liability following third party damage. I suspect this is at the root of your frustrations.

But, as I say, whatever keeps you happy!

Errr, what?
  1. You only need 3rd Party Insurance... Why?
  2. To pay damages to a 3rd Party who you might cause property damage or injury. ... How does that work?
  3. The third party makes a claim against the party that caused the damage - for claim which they are insured against. The insured party by taking out insurance waives their rights to contest claims themselves by contract with their insurer who decides how and when to contest claims.
So in the case the person 'injured' claims against the party that injured them - or their representative - (their insurance company). Why would you claim against your own insurance and negate any no-claims bonus you may have accrued with them?





Quote:
Originally Posted by stevestrat View Post
I'd be surprised if the Police would expend the little resources they have in a damage only bump. Breathalyser maybe but couldn't see them doing anything else.

Or look for evidence of phone usage immediately prior to the collision?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick-sta View Post
Would be a waste of time really, no way near major enough of an incident to call police. Would only bother if it was serious or if there was suspicion the driver was intoxicated or if it seemed like the driver may not have insurance. Would just be a waste of police time to be honest.

We checked if the car was insured there and then. Also the last time Deanna was rear ended badly (some of you may remember when she came to meets on crutches), the girl who hit her (which police suspected was at around 50mph whilst Deanna was stationary in traffic) was on the phone texting which was checked and proven by the police. The police report was that from the evidence at the scene, the girl was speeding in a 30 zone whilst on the phone, braked extremely late which could be seen from the skid marks on the road. She even lied to the police claiming her brakes failed, which didn't go to well when the police questioned why there are skid marks from the tyres on her car then.

Even with all these points considers (speeding, on the phone, lying to police) all she got was she was required to attend some driver's awareness course, no points or fine! Waste of time.

Also suspicion that they were on drugs or using the phone. They may not get much in the way of punishment - but it goes toward making a case for blame.


Quote:
Originally Posted by macafee2 View Post
I had a coming together with someone with the same insurance company but did not have any issues. The other party was held responsible

macafee2

Doesn't always go that way... any doubt and they'll try and 50/50 it. Why? because then both drivers will end up paying more in insurance one way or another.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 14:17   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avulon View Post


Also suspicion that they were on drugs or using the phone. They may not get much in the way of punishment - but it goes toward making a case for blame.


Yes true, but in this case the police on the day at the scene said it was very obvious and said they'd checked her phone and could see she was on it at the time. + the damage to both vehicles and the skid marks on the road was evidence to show she was well above the speed limit. All sounded promising on the day when the police said they'd be perusing her for driving without due care and attention, for being on the phone, speeding etc which they said would leave her with points and a hefty fine. Didn't turn out that way in the end.

If you or me were caught speeding whilst on the phone that would be what 6 points for being on the phone + points for speeding and a fine.


Anyways in an update to this, had a call from the assessor informing us that he has pushed the repair through so the back bumper will be replaced by Ford. Damn right!
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Old 23rd January 2019, 15:25   #16
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As regards the lack of justice in Deanna's earlier collision, I would pursue it with the police complaints authority. They can at least justify why they thought it not prudent to go for a conviction. You should have the right to know why.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 17:42   #17
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A few years ago I had a knock on the door and the postman said that he had bumped into my parked car outside in the road and handed me the details of who to call to sort out the insurance and repair.


The Post Office insure themselves but when I contacted them they said that I had to go through my own insurance company who would claim the money back off Royal Mail.

I wasn't happy at all as I see no reason whatsoever to even get in touch with your own insurance company when you are claiimning off another party.


Reluctantly I contacted my own insurance company who said that this procedure was correct and that basically I would be claiming through them and they would recover the money off Royal Mail.

When I naturally asked what would be the situation with my no claims, my own company sauid that I would temporarily lose it while the whole matter was sorted out and that it would be restored in full as soon as Royal Mail settled up.

To say that I was getting a touch tetchy at this point would be the understatement of the century.

I pointed out that my insurance renewal premium was due in two weeks time and surely if my no claims was temporarily removed that I would through no fault of my own have to come up with a wacking big increase in my premium if even for a short time until the no claims was restored.

My insurance company confirmed that i would have to initially pay an increased premium due to a reduced no claims bonus but everything would be fine as I would be reimbursed as soon as Royal Mail settled with them.


Bursting a gasket at this point and wondering why on earth i was dealing with the idiots at my insurance company instead of just sorting it out with Royal Mail I recontacted Royal Mail and played merry hell until they backed down and said that they would just sort it out themselves.


I still can't believe that my own insurers wanted to get involve ( they said that this was the industry standard procedure) and were quite prepared to remove my no claims whilst a 'no fault of mine' claim was sorted out with a third party.
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Old 24th January 2019, 16:22   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avulon View Post
Errr, what?
  1. You only need 3rd Party Insurance... Why?
  2. To pay damages to a 3rd Party who you might cause property damage or injury. ... How does that work?
  3. The third party makes a claim against the party that caused the damage - for claim which they are insured against. The insured party by taking out insurance waives their rights to contest claims themselves by contract with their insurer who decides how and when to contest claims.
So in the case the person 'injured' claims against the party that injured them - or their representative - (their insurance company). Why would you claim against your own insurance and negate any no-claims bonus you may have accrued with them?

I'm afraid you have missed the point.

A key part of the OP's rant is that his insurer has refused to supply to him details of the other party's insurance policy so that he can "claim directly off their policy".

My view is that under no circumstances is one party be able to claim directly off another party's insurance policy. It has to be facilitated by the other party, or not. This is because when one party damages another's car, person etc. the liability for this rests with the party that caused the damage, not "their insurer or representative". This is why in any court case it is the person who caused the damage that is in the dock and not their insurer or any representative. The insurer is there to provide indemnity when the insured faces costs resulting from his/her actions.

If you read between the lines, the OP's case appears to be one where the two parties involved in an incident have given different inputs to their respective insurers about the severity of the incident. That is most likely why the insurer would have marked the case as a "low impact collision".

Ask yourself a question - would you want a third party to have the ability to make a claim directly off your insurance policy if you have chosen not to facilitate this by providing your insurer's details? I would not wish this to happen and nor I believe would any straight thinking person. The ability to do this would lead to a rise in frivolous claims.

Now, to answer your specific questions/points,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avulon View Post
Errr, what?

You only need 3rd Party Insurance... Why?
So that a driver who causes damage to another's property or person is capable of compensating the other party for the damage caused. The legal requirement to have third party insurance is the mechanism for ensuring this position exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avulon View Post

To pay damages to a 3rd Party who you might cause property damage or injury. ... How does that work?
Either the party that caused the damage pays or they use/facilitate their indemnity insurance to pay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avulon View Post
Errr, what?

The third party makes a claim against the party that caused the damage - for claim which they are insured against. The insured party by taking out insurance waives their rights to contest claims themselves by contract with their insurer who decides how and when to contest claims.
Absolutely not. The insured party is always in a position to determine what to contest. The insurer determines whether they will support the action by providing indemnity. What the insurer cannot and will not do is take any action that undermines the insured's legal position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avulon View Post
Errr, what?
So in the case the person 'injured' claims against the party that injured them - or their representative - (their insurance company). Why would you claim against your own insurance and negate any no-claims bonus you may have accrued with them?
Absolutely not. The claim is always against the party that caused the damage.

The negating of the no-claims is on the basis of who is deemed to be at fault and therefore pays for the damage. This is irrespective of whether you deal with your own insurer or directly with the other party's insurer. If the other party is deemed to be at fault, your insurer will try to recover costs from the other party and if successful, will mark it as a no-fault claim thus protecting your NCD.

If you disagree with my views on liability, please show a legal, procedural or code of conduct document which supports what you say.

Last edited by MSS; 24th January 2019 at 16:26..
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Old 25th January 2019, 00:54   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mss View Post
I'm afraid you have missed the point.

Ahh, I have, have I?



Quote:
Originally Posted by mss View Post
A key part of the OP's rant is that his insurer has refused to supply to him details of the other party's insurance policy so that he can "claim directly off their policy".

My view is that under no circumstances is one party be able to claim directly off another party's insurance policy. It has to be facilitated by the other party, or not. This is because when one party damages another's car, person etc. the liability for this rests with the party that caused the damage, not "their insurer or representative". This is why in any court case it is the person who caused the damage that is in the dock and not their insurer or any representative. The insurer is there to provide indemnity when the insured faces costs resulting from his/her actions.

Well, perhaps you'd better check the contract you have with your insurance then.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mss View Post
If you read between the lines, the OP's case appears to be one where the two parties involved in an incident have given different inputs to their respective insurers about the severity of the incident. That is most likely why the insurer would have marked the case as a "low impact collision".

No, really? both parties involved in an accident disagreeing somewhat over the details how (not) surprising!



Quote:
Originally Posted by mss View Post
Ask yourself a question - would you want a third party to have the ability to make a claim directly off your insurance policy if you have chosen not to facilitate this by providing your insurer's details? I would not wish this to happen and nor I believe would any straight thinking person. The ability to do this would lead to a rise in frivolous claims.

Doesn't really matter what you want. Either provide your insurance details or end up being chased for thousands in damages. Up to you isn't it?



Actually, if another person has been injured then you must provide your insurance details. Also regardless of injury you must report the accident to the police within 24 hours. RAC advises that you provide your insurance details anyway.


Besides, what good do you think witholding your details will do? As you have to give your name and address, and the car registration number and the owner's name and address anyway. A simple enquiry at ask MID will provide all the relevant details. http://www.askmid.com/askmidenquiry.aspx








Quote:
Originally Posted by mss View Post
Now, to answer your specific questions/points,
So that a driver who causes damage to another's property or person is capable of compensating the other party for the damage caused. The legal requirement to have third party insurance is the mechanism for ensuring this position exists.

You completely miss the point of my remark here. How does someone with only third party insurance make a claim when someone else is at fault if they can't claim against the other driver('s insurance)? They can't make claim against their own as they are only ... 3rd party insured!





Quote:
Originally Posted by mss View Post

Either the party that caused the damage pays or they use/facilitate their indemnity insurance to pay.

Well, show me an insurance contract that allows the party causing damage to settle without telling their insurance. As I said, once insured the insurer has full control in the matter. Settling without telling the insurer is failure to report a material fact and will void your insurance.






Quote:
Originally Posted by mss View Post

Absolutely not. The insured party is always in a position to determine what to contest. The insurer determines whether they will support the action by providing indemnity. What the insurer cannot and will not do is take any action that undermines the insured's legal position.

How wrong can you be? The only thing the driver being claimed against can do is to counter-claim. Call that contesting if you will, but basically it boils down to making a statement about the circumstances of the accident. At some point the insurers will agree a balance of blame and divide compensation in line with that ratio.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mss View Post
Absolutely not. The claim is always against the party that caused the damage.

The negating of the no-claims is on the basis of who is deemed to be at fault and therefore pays for the damage. This is irrespective of whether you deal with your own insurer or directly with the other party's insurer. If the other party is deemed to be at fault, your insurer will try to recover costs from the other party and if successful, will mark it as a no-fault claim thus protecting your NCD.

If you disagree with my views on liability, please show a legal, procedural or code of conduct document which supports what you say.

(liability isn't being argued here - that is down to individual cases)



I've no need to show any documents, and could equally ask you to provide the same evidence in support of your own argument. However all you need do is actually read your full contract of insurance and any accompanying documentation. And actually check with the .gov guidelines. What you choose to believe is your business. What you advise others isn't. I'm no more, or less, a legal insurance expert than yourself. I'm just highlighting that I believe (based on my own experiences of the insurance process post accident, and what I can easily find authorative source for online) that you are so far from correct that any advice you give anyone else in this area is likely to mislead.





In my opinion:

Anyone involved in an accident where the sum involved is greater than around £1000 should seek completely independent qualified legal advice from a qualified solicitor that specialises in accident insurance. Forget using the legal insurance - which will just provide you an unqualified and inexperienced person to your case.





P.S.

The No Claims Discount and how that may be removed or provided is at the discretion of the (individual) insurer (e.g. protected no claims);e.g. some insurers don't offer NCD) however, be clear - it's called 'no claims discount' and not 'no fault discount' for a reason... if you claim against your insurance for any reason - even if they eventually recover all costs from the other party's insurance they can still reduce or negate entirely your no claims discount if that's permitted by their contractual terms with the insured. They can inf fact (but usually only after very serious accidents which are their insured clients fault) cancel the remainder of the insurance term retaining the full payment for the insurance.
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Old 25th January 2019, 01:00   #20
Avulon
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And for Rick - just in case this was lost in the massive post above.


If you have the registration number of the other vehicle and reasonable ground for requesting their insurance details go here and pay the small fee.


http://www.askmid.com/askmidenquiry.aspx


And feel free to claim directly. Although I'd recommend legal advice, the only trouble with legal advice is that you are actually limited as to the total value of legal assistance that can be provided based on the probable value of the claim. This is because the courts will not now award expenses that outweigh the claim itself. (there's an actual fixed scale of allowable costs). Look for free consultations to find out the basic details.
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