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Old 17th June 2019, 08:11   #51
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Originally Posted by hinged_bap View Post
My daughter ( who lives with me) hasn't even passed her test yet, but has a car, taxed and parked in the driveway. She hasn't insured it yet as she's waiting to get her full license. I drive the car occasionally under an insurance clause on my insurance that says (sic): " the insured may drive another car not belonging to them and not hired to them".


So, its taxed, and insured ( under my insurance ) but won't appear on the MID.


I did ring my insurers to check this and they said (sic), you're insured as long as you're driving it. ( So I couldn't park up on the
roadside, and dash into a shop to buy something, whilst I wasn't in it, it'd be un-insured ).
Be very careful here, driving other cars, with road risk only extensions only apply if the car you are driving is also insured.

In any event, the car must remain insured in it's own right to remain taxed, or a sorn declaration must be made, and the tax redeemed.

So driving a car which is uninsured, is at best dicey, and at worst illegal, unless your insurance is worded something like "any vehicle under the insured's custody or control" ie fleet or motor trade, and not your average fully comp standard policy

You would be likely to find this out the hard way, when pulled over after a ping by ANPR

Brian

P.S. by the way, it is licence, and not license, something that you will be sporting six points if you continue to drive an uninsured car
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Old 17th June 2019, 08:25   #52
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She hasn't insured it yet
That is an offence - s.144A, Road Traffic Act 1988, committed by the registered keeper.
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Old 17th June 2019, 09:32   #53
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Originally Posted by hinged_bap View Post
I did ring my insurers to check this and they said (sic), you're insured as long as you're driving it. ( So I couldn't park up on the
roadside, and dash into a shop to buy something, whilst I wasn't in it, it'd be un-insured ).
I'm with the others as I don't think you're covered and that's technically against the law and you could be looking at a fine and 6 points if caught by plod.

All insurance companies small print is different though typically driving other cars insurance is limited to 3rd party cover and is often intended only for emergency use. Popping down the shops may in itself not be covered by some insurers even if the car has it's own insurance. The devil as they say is in the detail.

For the sake of a phone call double check with your insurer making sure they know the car itself has no insurance (as shown on MID) and that it's not your car and IF they answer the same get it in writing before you next venture out in the car....

Alternatively don't risk it and get your daughter to SORN the car and save the RFL/VED/car tax call it what you want....
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Old 17th June 2019, 11:01   #54
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I did check my policy and it contained words to the effect of:


" the insured may drive another car not belonging to them and not hired to them"....


No where did it say "providing it is insured in its own right by the registered keeper" - or anything even coming close.


I was unsure myself, thats why I rang my insurers, did the answer I receive from them was made on assumption that: "it was insured in its own right" i wonder.
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Old 17th June 2019, 12:23   #55
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Originally Posted by hinged_bap View Post
I did check my policy and it contained words to the effect of:


" the insured may drive another car not belonging to them and not hired to them"....


No where did it say "providing it is insured in its own right by the registered keeper" - or anything even coming close.


I was unsure myself, thats why I rang my insurers, did the answer I receive from them was made on assumption that: "it was insured in its own right" i wonder.
Exactly why I suggested that you give them a call to double check. For the sake of a phone call do you really want to risk 6 points and a fine?

Go for peace of mind and give them a call and IF the answer's the same be sure to get it in writing from them.
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Old 17th June 2019, 12:49   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinged_bap View Post
I did check my policy and it contained words to the effect of:


" the insured may drive another car not belonging to them and not hired to them"....


No where did it say "providing it is insured in its own right by the registered keeper" - or anything even coming close.


I was unsure myself, thats why I rang my insurers, did the answer I receive from them was made on assumption that: "it was insured in its own right" i wonder.

I would look at this slightly differently. Unless the policy states that the insured may drive another car .......even if it is not insured in its own right, I would assume that it must be insured in its own right.


Also, if the insurer confirmed that the other car does not need to be insured I would want this confirmed in writing. I suspect you are unlikely to secure this as it seems counter to the intent behind the rules on taxing a car etc.
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Old 17th June 2019, 13:59   #57
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Some insurance polices wont insure you to drive your partners car but will allow you drive another car not belonging to you as long as its insured. Strange.
If you go as a named driver on the other cars policy there can be an increase in premium.

why not partners car but ok to drive a mates car?

hinged-bap, did you tell your insurance company that your daughters car is not insured? I'm with the others, I would not expect you to be insured driving her car if the car does not have it's own insurance

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Old 17th June 2019, 17:02   #58
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Another point, If the police did stop you and insist you're not insured, the car will be seized and only released when showing insured. Also I agree your daughters car has to be insured to be remain taxed & if not, that's an offence as well.

Last edited by RoverP480; 17th June 2019 at 17:04.. Reason: additions
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Old 17th June 2019, 17:05   #59
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I've been on the phone to Chrchills this PM. The chap I spoke to confirmed I have basic 3rd Party insurance when driving my daughters car - even though the car does not have its own insurance. I've asked for an email to confirm this, which they said they'd provide. I haven't received it yet although to be fair, maybe that email gets provided by a 'typing pool' functional area rather than the policy inquiry dept.


Its so kafkaesque, maybe they don't know themselves.
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Old 17th June 2019, 17:33   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinged_bap View Post
I've been on the phone to Chrchills this PM. The chap I spoke to confirmed I have basic 3rd Party insurance when driving my daughters car - even though the car does not have its own insurance. I've asked for an email to confirm this, which they said they'd provide. I haven't received it yet although to be fair, maybe that email gets provided by a 'typing pool' functional area rather than the policy inquiry dept.


Its so kafkaesque, maybe they don't know themselves.
Well every standard car policy I've ever had where the driving other cars extension applies only when the car in question that you intend to drive has cover in place, further to which this cover shall not extend to vehicles where other insurance is in place covering such liability, and as the car is currently uninsured in it's own right, it is very likely to ping an ANPR check, or worse again if you are involved in a RTC, to be personally liable.

Irrespective of that, take a read below, the car can be uninsured and SORN, but not uninsured and taxed

Personally I wouldn't be prepared to take the risk of a large fine, penalty points, or the unthinkable, and nor would I take as gospel anything regurgitated by a call centre operator on minimum wage


Enforcement

The Motor Insurance Bureau (MIB) regularly compares the driver and vehicle records held by the DVLA and the records held on the Motor Insurance Database (MID).

Insurance advisory letter

If you're suspected of being the registered keeper of a vehicle without insurance or SORN you'll first get an official reminder – an 'Insurance Advisory Letter'.

If you ignore the letter and take no further action then you can expect:

A £100 fixed penalty (reduced to £50 if paid within 21 days).
A fine of up to £1000 if the case goes to court.
The vehicle being clamped, seized or destroyed.
How long before you get a letter?

It's important not to let your insurance cover lapse at renewal time as an insurance advisory letter (AIL) can be issued as soon as the MIB identifies a taxed vehicle without insurance.

Whenever you insure a vehicle or renew cover it's a good idea to check that the insurer has actually sent a record of your cover to the motor insurance database (MID). You can do this by entering the vehicle registration on askmid.com.

Exemptions

Some vehicles are exempt from continuous insurance enforcement:

A vehicle with a valid SORN
A vehicle that was exempted from SORN (untaxed before 31 January 1998 and no tax or SORN activity since)
A vehicle recorded as 'scrapped'
A vehicle recorded as 'stolen and not recovered'
A vehicle recorded as 'disposed to the trade'
A vehicle recorded as 'disposed'
A vehicle recorded as 'exported'
A vehicle owned by the crown

You could always remove any ambiguity whatsoever, by simply insuring your daughter's car if she is intending to use it for the purpose of learning to drive.........just a thought

Brian
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