towing weight (unbraked)

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by Coups

Right then Harry. So, without a handy weighbridge to get your kerbweight how do you work out your 85%?

Right then, how about you look in your car's handbook and probably on the VIN plate too on the B pillar. From memory, my diesel's kerbweight is 1595Kg, or there abouts. The kerbweight does not vary as you add load in the car, it is fixed and quoted by the manufacturer. You seem to be of the opinion that you can change the kerbweight by adding weight in the car - that you can tow an heavier caravan by adding load into the car, that is absolutely not the case.

However, you can improve the stability of an outfit by adding load to the tug, or transferring weight from trailer to tug.

The 85% is a recommended value for the safety of those inexperienced in towing, as recommended by the caravan clubs, RAC, AA and many others to be best practice for safety.

Even for those who are experienced at towing, there are still limits to be taken into account, such as train weight, axle loading and towball loading. The 75 has a maximum towball loading of 150Kg, I tow with a 75 to 80Kg towball load and at around the 85%. Trailers have a maximum load on the ball too, my caravan has a maximum of 100Kg. Practice and feel suggests my 75 to 80Kg provides best stability for my own outfit.

Even if the trailer is legal to be towed, there are the practicalities to be considered, like has the car enough engine power and suitable gearing to cope with the extra load. My diesel easily tows on the open road, but I find first gear just a bit too high for awkward hill starts.

A trailer (or caravan) has an unladen or kerbweight, just like your car. It will also have a maximum laden weight - the difference between the two is the maximum payload - which absolutely must not be exceeded. Out of the payload comes your caravan mover system, gas bottles, clothes, TV's, water carriers and everything else you might seek to add in there. It is that maximum weight which is used in the 85% calculation.

[bikerdude666]

Originally Posted by Coups

Finding an unladen kerbweight is easy. It’s in your handbook. It’s the kerbweight when you’ve chucked in your holiday togs, egg mayo sarnies and the dogs extra blanket and all the other guff that goes with a trip. That’s when a kerbweight becomes guesswork.


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But that is the kerb weight, the weight of the unloaded vehicle with all fluids (oil, coolant, fuel), not with luggage and people. I'm not saying I agree with the 85% guide of 1 weight when you could have another 500kg in the car which could bring the % down a lot. But, the weight of a car loaded with passengers and luggage, isn't the kerb weight. Out of interest I'm going to take my caravan to work sometime and weigh both the unloaded car and unloaded van to see how accurate the plate is.

[lady zed]

I think yooz are all over complicating things. Check your handbook for the Max weight your car can tow then buy a caravan at least 500kg lighter to account for luggage. And make sure it has brakes. Easy.

[Coups]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

Right then, how about you look in your car's handbook and probably on the VIN plate too on the B pillar. From memory, my diesel's kerbweight is 1595Kg, or there abouts. The kerbweight does not vary as you add load in the car, it is fixed and quoted by the manufacturer. You seem to be of the opinion that you can change the kerbweight by adding weight in the car - that you can tow an heavier caravan by adding load into the car, that is absolutely not the case.

However, you can improve the stability of an outfit by adding load to the tug, or transferring weight from trailer to tug.

The 85% is a recommended value for the safety of those inexperienced in towing, as recommended by the caravan clubs, RAC, AA and many others to be best practice for safety.

Even for those who are experienced at towing, there are still limits to be taken into account, such as train weight, axle loading and towball loading. The 75 has a maximum towball loading of 150Kg, I tow with a 75 to 80Kg towball load and at around the 85%. Trailers have a maximum load on the ball too, my caravan has a maximum of 100Kg. Practice and feel suggests my 75 to 80Kg provides best stability for my own outfit.

Even if the trailer is legal to be towed, there are the practicalities to be considered, like has the car enough engine power and suitable gearing to cope with the extra load. My diesel easily tows on the open road, but I find first gear just a bit too high for awkward hill starts.

A trailer (or caravan) has an unladen or kerbweight, just like your car. It will also have a maximum laden weight - the difference between the two is the maximum payload - which absolutely must not be exceeded. Out of the payload comes your caravan mover system, gas bottles, clothes, TV's, water carriers and everything else you might seek to add in there. It is that maximum weight which is used in the 85% calculation.

Hi Harry, the unladen weight seems a better term than kerbweight. Given it’s a fixed quantity then. I see what you’re getting at. Seems awfully complicated compared to a simple maximum train weight. Anyways, I wasn’t under the impression that by adding weight to the tow vehicle would mean you could tow a larger trailer, that’d be silly, when talking about cars and caravans anyway!

You certainly seem to know your stuff and it’s all very good advice. Maybe the law has made it too simplistic?


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[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by lady zed

I think yooz are all over complicating things. Check your handbook for the Max weight your car can tow then buy a caravan at least 500kg lighter to account for luggage. And make sure it has brakes. Easy.

That wouldn't work either .

500kg less than your car can tow, would make it a very lightweight caravan indeed - not many caravans these days are built that light.

Rare and very large would be a caravan with a payload of 500Kg, more usually the specified payload in in the 150 to 200Kg range.

Just doing the sums is easier!

[Busboy]

Thanks Rich your input has been invaluable!

[Busboy]

Thanks Reece, that's interesting about the extra weight of passengers and luggage increasing the 85% rule.

[Busboy]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

Right then, how about you look in your car's handbook and probably on the VIN plate too on the B pillar. From memory, my diesel's kerbweight is 1595Kg, or there abouts. The kerbweight does not vary as you add load in the car, it is fixed and quoted by the manufacturer. You seem to be of the opinion that you can change the kerbweight by adding weight in the car - that you can tow an heavier caravan by adding load into the car, that is absolutely not the case.

However, you can improve the stability of an outfit by adding load to the tug, or transferring weight from trailer to tug.

The 85% is a recommended value for the safety of those inexperienced in towing, as recommended by the caravan clubs, RAC, AA and many others to be best practice for safety.

Even for those who are experienced at towing, there are still limits to be taken into account, such as train weight, axle loading and towball loading. The 75 has a maximum towball loading of 150Kg, I tow with a 75 to 80Kg towball load and at around the 85%. Trailers have a maximum load on the ball too, my caravan has a maximum of 100Kg. Practice and feel suggests my 75 to 80Kg provides best stability for my own outfit.

Even if the trailer is legal to be towed, there are the practicalities to be considered, like has the car enough engine power and suitable gearing to cope with the extra load. My diesel easily tows on the open road, but I find first gear just a bit too high for awkward hill starts.

A trailer (or caravan) has an unladen or kerbweight, just like your car. It will also have a maximum laden weight - the difference between the two is the maximum payload - which absolutely must not be exceeded. Out of the payload comes your caravan mover system, gas bottles, clothes, TV's, water carriers and everything else you might seek to add in there. It is that maximum weight which is used in the 85% calculation.

Well Harry that's the best description yet, I must admit to not expecting so many replies to my original thread and whilst still looking for my caravan I have found all the input most invaluable.

[rrobson]

Originally Posted by Busboy

Thanks Reece, that's interesting about the extra weight of passengers and luggage increasing the 85% rule.

As stated it should go off the weight of an empty car because there may be circumstances where the need to tow something without a loaded car arises.
The thing is, if you wanted a caravan that has a maximum loaded weight of 1500kg and you only use it for holidaying with the family, your car will weigh more with people and luggage therefore giving you that buffer.
This isn't the correct way the view it but the 75 is a very stable tow car so inexperienced drivers shouldn't have trouble if the weight of the van was increased to 90% of the cars unladen weight.

As a general statement, single axel trailers or caravans tend to be within the safe capabilities of the 75/zt. Twin axels will more than likely be above.

[reworht]

This fact sheet is a 4 page PDF file which can be downloaded free of charge from the Camping and Caravanning Club website. It's worth doing so and sitting in a corner whilst you read it - I reckon it's one of the better plain English documents