Fuel guage and range issues 75 Tourer

Clive pugh · 13th June 2015, 08:52

Hi,
Have started to experience running out of fuel issues.
About three weeks ago heading up the A1 fuel getting low but light not on and range showing 70 miles I was heading for garage about 10 miles away. Engine died at speed in outside lane so was quite interesting heading for hard shoulder in rush hour traffic at Stevenage!

AA called, announced I'd run out of diesel,(always a red face moment) put a can full in, car started and followed me to garage. Mental note to self not to get down to 50 mile range!

Four days later heading down M40 to Maidenhead 100 miles range and tank showing just under half full ... Engine died another Aa visit... He undid the fuel outlet from pump said I still had diesel and car started after a bit of cranking...followed to garage for fill up he checked diagnostics no error!! Garage couldn't find an error and car ran fine until last night when same thing happened... this time definitely out of fuel with 100 mile on range and just under half tank of fuEl showing!!!

David Lawrence · 13th June 2015, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive pugh

Hi,
Have started to experience running out of fuel issues.
About three weeks ago heading up the A1 fuel getting low but light not on and range showing 70 miles I was heading for garage about 10 miles away. Engine died at speed in outside lane so was quite interesting heading for hard shoulder in rush hour traffic at Stevenage!

AA called, announced I'd run out of diesel,(always a red face moment) put a can full in, car started and followed me to garage. Mental note to self not to get down to 50 mile range!

Four days later heading down M40 to Maidenhead 100 miles range and tank showing just under half full ... Engine died another Aa visit... He undid the fuel outlet from pump said I still had diesel and car started after a bit of cranking...followed to garage for fill up he checked diagnostics no error!! Garage couldn't find an error and car ran fine until last night when same thing happened... this time definitely out of fuel with 100 mile on range and just under half tank of fuEl showing!!!

Welcome to the club, and someone will be along shortly to explain how to replace your in tank fuel pump. There is a pump in the tank and one of the things it does is pump fuel from one half of the tank to the other over the exhaust tunnel.

When your tank falls below 1/4 of a tank you can then still have a fair bit of fuel left but the car appears to run out of fuel.

Mike Noc · 13th June 2015, 09:01

Check your in tank pump. Key to position II and listen through the open fuel filler cap. You should hear a soft whining for between 30 seconds and a minute.

If you are unsure unplug the under bonnet plug connection.

If the ITP has packed up keep more than a quarter of a tank of fuel onboard until you replace it.

Clive pugh · 13th June 2015, 13:34

Out of interest have checked on board diagnostic no 6 which says 1-6-2 which would indicate no issue with sensors I believe

David Lawrence · 13th June 2015, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive pugh

Out of interest have checked on board diagnostic no 6 which says 1-6-2 which would indicate no issue with sensors I believe

There wont be a sensor problem. The pump is more likely broken. Have you done the check suggested above?

Clive pugh · 13th June 2015, 17:16

Yes, had a listen and can hear something but will have another listen a bit later on...

GeoffWW · 13th June 2015, 21:10

Clive,

At just under 1/2 full on the gauge, you should have a range, doing motorway/A1 style of driving - hardly any stops, steady mile after mile, of nearly 300 miles and not 100. I can get my total range plus miles done since fill up to well over 600 miles, and mines an automatic. So there is something mechanically wrong with the two floats in each side of the tank. On non motorway driving, with stops and starts and sharp cornering, you get the sloshing about of the fuel throwing it back over the "transmission tunnel weir", but this does not on motorways/A1 type roads.

As David Lawrence has referred to the 1/4 full level above, until about a year ago, to avoid your problem (the quirks of the diesel tank 'workings'), it was generally deemed to be best to use the 1/4 full level on the gauge as being "EMPTY", and refuel straight away ignoring whatever figure is given as the remaining "range", and the gauge reading being above empty as far as 1/4 full

This seems to avoid any chance of the in-tank pump running dry, after pumping all the fuel from the pump side (offside of the saddle tank), to the nearside, thus greatly accelerating wear with the resulting fuel transfer problems.
There is a diagram on the forum showing the full fuel system with a pick-up cup on the in tank pump suction but this can exacerbate the problem. If the cup is pumped dry, no fuel is transferred to the under-bonnet pump and you appear to have run out of diesel, and then the wear sets in straight away.

Before going into a big expense of two fuel pumps, try to get some diesel into your tank to bring the level up to at least 1/4 full and you may get away with having to replace the pump or pumps.

Mike Noc · 13th June 2015, 23:17

Geoff with the system working as it should you can run the tank down till the low level light comes on before every fill up and you will be fine.

In the event of the ITP failing the reason the engine stops around a quarter of a tank is that once the level reaches the normally open priming valve on top of the ITP, the UBP starts sucking air and not fuel.

The fuel pressure from the ITP closes the valve so when the pump is running this won't occur.

Clive pugh · 14th June 2015, 07:13

Filled tank, think about 44ltrs and range showed about 640 miles ..would that be about right? Car seems to be running fine at moment....hope that's not tempting providence!

13th June 2015, 08:52	#1
Clive pugh Regular poster Rover 75 Tourer connoisseur CDT manual Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hatfield Posts: 32 Thanks: 26 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Fuel guage and range issues 75 Tourer Hi, Have started to experience running out of fuel issues. About three weeks ago heading up the A1 fuel getting low but light not on and range showing 70 miles I was heading for garage about 10 miles away. Engine died at speed in outside lane so was quite interesting heading for hard shoulder in rush hour traffic at Stevenage! AA called, announced I'd run out of diesel,(always a red face moment) put a can full in, car started and followed me to garage. Mental note to self not to get down to 50 mile range! Four days later heading down M40 to Maidenhead 100 miles range and tank showing just under half full ... Engine died another Aa visit... He undid the fuel outlet from pump said I still had diesel and car started after a bit of cranking...followed to garage for fill up he checked diagnostics no error!! Garage couldn't find an error and car ran fine until last night when same thing happened... this time definitely out of fuel with 100 mile on range and just under half tank of fuEl showing!!!

13th June 2015, 09:01	#3
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,548 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	Check your in tank pump. Key to position II and listen through the open fuel filler cap. You should hear a soft whining for between 30 seconds and a minute. If you are unsure unplug the under bonnet plug connection. If the ITP has packed up keep more than a quarter of a tank of fuel onboard until you replace it.

13th June 2015, 13:34	#4
Clive pugh Regular poster Rover 75 Tourer connoisseur CDT manual Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hatfield Posts: 32 Thanks: 26 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Out of interest have checked on board diagnostic no 6 which says 1-6-2 which would indicate no issue with sensors I believe

13th June 2015, 17:16	#6
Clive pugh Regular poster Rover 75 Tourer connoisseur CDT manual Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hatfield Posts: 32 Thanks: 26 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Yes, had a listen and can hear something but will have another listen a bit later on...

13th June 2015, 21:10	#7
GeoffWW Loves to post Rover 75 CDTi Tourer Connoisseur SE Auto, Also fully restored Mk 2 1966 MG Midget Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Manchester Posts: 314 Thanks: 49 Thanked 59 Times in 46 Posts	Clive, At just under 1/2 full on the gauge, you should have a range, doing motorway/A1 style of driving - hardly any stops, steady mile after mile, of nearly 300 miles and not 100. I can get my total range plus miles done since fill up to well over 600 miles, and mines an automatic. So there is something mechanically wrong with the two floats in each side of the tank. On non motorway driving, with stops and starts and sharp cornering, you get the sloshing about of the fuel throwing it back over the "transmission tunnel weir", but this does not on motorways/A1 type roads. As David Lawrence has referred to the 1/4 full level above, until about a year ago, to avoid your problem (the quirks of the diesel tank 'workings'), it was generally deemed to be best to use the 1/4 full level on the gauge as being "EMPTY", and refuel straight away ignoring whatever figure is given as the remaining "range", and the gauge reading being above empty as far as 1/4 full This seems to avoid any chance of the in-tank pump running dry, after pumping all the fuel from the pump side (offside of the saddle tank), to the nearside, thus greatly accelerating wear with the resulting fuel transfer problems. There is a diagram on the forum showing the full fuel system with a pick-up cup on the in tank pump suction but this can exacerbate the problem. If the cup is pumped dry, no fuel is transferred to the under-bonnet pump and you appear to have run out of diesel, and then the wear sets in straight away. Before going into a big expense of two fuel pumps, try to get some diesel into your tank to bring the level up to at least 1/4 full and you may get away with having to replace the pump or pumps.

13th June 2015, 23:17	#8
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,548 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	Geoff with the system working as it should you can run the tank down till the low level light comes on before every fill up and you will be fine. In the event of the ITP failing the reason the engine stops around a quarter of a tank is that once the level reaches the normally open priming valve on top of the ITP, the UBP starts sucking air and not fuel. The fuel pressure from the ITP closes the valve so when the pump is running this won't occur.

14th June 2015, 07:13	#9
Clive pugh Regular poster Rover 75 Tourer connoisseur CDT manual Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Hatfield Posts: 32 Thanks: 26 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Filled tank, think about 44ltrs and range showed about 640 miles ..would that be about right? Car seems to be running fine at moment....hope that's not tempting providence!