Breaking news HGF......! - Page 2

Gman2 · 28th January 2009, 17:48

Pab: Thanks. Everything was fine until today. My wife noticed the fan was on a bit more regularly but nothing more. Later in the day driving into Leeds she noticed the fan was on, then the heater packed up followed by the engine struggling. Finally she saw the temp gauge rocket and she stopped the car. I suppose if I was driving I'd have stopped when the heater packed up but she wasn't to know.

Eskezz: Everyone has a different view on this but i for one will be getting the MLS on my R75 as a precaution. M&G said of the 100's they've fitted only one has failed and that was prob to a mistake down to them. I'd rather do it when it's planned rather than HGF out in the sticks, getting it low loaded to the nearest specialist and costing more into the bargain.

pab · 28th January 2009, 18:02

it,s the coolant thing..you had it pressure tested,no leaks?(presume)did it use any coolant as a matter of interest

pab

Gman2 · 28th January 2009, 18:07

The pressure test was fine incl the coolant cap. I thought I was loosing a small amount over, say 2 weeks. The garage also said that i was under filling the header tank and it should be almost to the top of the fins - you need every drop you can get.....

pab · 28th January 2009, 18:18

as you know,if you overfill above the max tab in the header it will spit it out of the cap.i find they do use a bit of coolant,and checking on a regular basis.did you ever do the t-cut diagnostic mode survey?

pab

Telferstr · 28th January 2009, 18:24

Really it not just a question of slapping on a MLS Gasket. A number of checks need to be done to find the root cause for the failure. 1:- Water Pump is it leaking. 2:- Inlet Manifold Water Joints, are they sound. 3:- Cylinder Liner Heights, are they all even and at the correct height in relation to the Cylinder Block Face. If they are low, i.e., below the block face, it's a waste of time putting on a new Gasket. So please do not rush the repair.
To make sure of a long lasting repair ensure that the full Modified Gasket Assembly Kit is fitted Part No. ZUA000080 Consisting of 1:- Xpart Multi Layer Steel (MLS) Head Gasket. 2:- Cylinder Head Shim. When fitting ZUA000080 the Shim must be used, even if the Cylinder Head resurfacing work has not taken place. The Shim should be fitted with the BLACK coated side to the Cylinder Head. Cylinder Head Gasket to Block, then Shim on top of Gasket with Black Face up and then the Cylinder Head. 3:-Oil Feed Ladder Rail. The MLS Gasket should always be used in conjunction with the uprated Oil Feed Ladder Rail supplied with the KIT. It is of a stronger construction to the one it replaces and helps the Cylinder Head Clamping Bolts to have a firmer hold on the Head Gasket.
For the MLS Gasket to perform correctly and to be covered by the terms of the Xpart warranty, it must always be used with the uprated Oil Feed Ladder Rail.
Yes it will cost a little more time to do this, but it should be worth the effort.
Finally please ensure the garage finds the root cause of why the Head Gasket failed in the first place, usually water loss is the easy answer, BUT WHERE FROM AND WHY!!!!!
Also make sure that if there are Plastic Dowels in the Head/Block oil ways that they are replaced by the later Steel Dowels. If your engine is a 1.8 Turbo, these will probably be already there, but just make sure.
Sorry if I sound a bit blunt, but many people seem to be just fitting the MLS Gasket on it's own and expect it to cure all the problems. It may in some few cases, but the KIT was designed to overcome the problem in the Freelander application and a lot of work went into it's development. Therefore it makes more than sense to use the whole Assembly.
Regards,
Telfer.

WARNING:- XPART do not cover under their Terms of Warranty the MLS Gasket if the uprated OIL FEED LADDER RAIL has not been fitted.

Gman2 · 28th January 2009, 18:52

Wise words Telferstr. I'm sure they are fully aware of the issues surrounding the MLS as they are a MG/Rover specialist, MGOC recommended and sadly, as a result, have seen HGF many times. However i'll contact them tomorrow to raise some of your points like the oil rail.

:lol:

Telferstr · 28th January 2009, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gman2

Wise words Telferstr. I'm sure they are fully aware of the issues surrounding the MLS as they are a MG/Rover specialist, MGOC recommended and sadly, as a result, have seen HGF many times. However i'll contact them tomorrow to raise some of your points like the oil rail.

:lol:

Hi Gman,
If they order the Part No. Quoted it Will come with the whole Kit including the OIlFeed Ladder Rail. Did you note the Warranty condition. No Modified Ladder Rail Fitted N Warranty on the MLS Gasket.
Hope things get sorted okay and that you are back on the road soon.
Regards,
Telfer.

Gman2 · 28th January 2009, 19:08

Telfer - many thanks for your input. This is what the club is all about :lol:

Gman2 · 28th January 2009, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by pab

as you know,if you overfill above the max tab in the header it will spit it out of the cap.i find they do use a bit of coolant,and checking on a regular basis.did you ever do the t-cut diagnostic mode survey?

pab

On some recent long journeys i was using the diagnostics coolant check and it was returning 94 C - 96 C which was normal. For short local journeys I didn't bother.

Gman2 · 29th January 2009, 16:15

Ok. Had a chat with the mechanic re the oil rail and it's not getting fitted. Reason - they did initially but they found that they were needlessly replacing the oil rail that was in fact undamaged. Therefore over the past years it's just been the MLS and they've never had an issue with HGF on cars adopting this approach. All the work is warranted.

Anyone care to comment

28th January 2009, 18:24	#15
Telferstr Posted a thing or two Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross 3. 1.5 Petrol 6 Speed Manual Gearbox. Great fan of the Mk1 75 which I had 3 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Inverkip, Scotland. Posts: 1,223 Thanks: 23 Thanked 68 Times in 44 Posts	Really it not just a question of slapping on a MLS Gasket. A number of checks need to be done to find the root cause for the failure. 1:- Water Pump is it leaking. 2:- Inlet Manifold Water Joints, are they sound. 3:- Cylinder Liner Heights, are they all even and at the correct height in relation to the Cylinder Block Face. If they are low, i.e., below the block face, it's a waste of time putting on a new Gasket. So please do not rush the repair. To make sure of a long lasting repair ensure that the full Modified Gasket Assembly Kit is fitted Part No. ZUA000080 Consisting of 1:- Xpart Multi Layer Steel (MLS) Head Gasket. 2:- Cylinder Head Shim. When fitting ZUA000080 the Shim must be used, even if the Cylinder Head resurfacing work has not taken place. The Shim should be fitted with the BLACK coated side to the Cylinder Head. Cylinder Head Gasket to Block, then Shim on top of Gasket with Black Face up and then the Cylinder Head. 3:-Oil Feed Ladder Rail. The MLS Gasket should always be used in conjunction with the uprated Oil Feed Ladder Rail supplied with the KIT. It is of a stronger construction to the one it replaces and helps the Cylinder Head Clamping Bolts to have a firmer hold on the Head Gasket. For the MLS Gasket to perform correctly and to be covered by the terms of the Xpart warranty, it must always be used with the uprated Oil Feed Ladder Rail. Yes it will cost a little more time to do this, but it should be worth the effort. Finally please ensure the garage finds the root cause of why the Head Gasket failed in the first place, usually water loss is the easy answer, BUT WHERE FROM AND WHY!!!!! Also make sure that if there are Plastic Dowels in the Head/Block oil ways that they are replaced by the later Steel Dowels. If your engine is a 1.8 Turbo, these will probably be already there, but just make sure. Sorry if I sound a bit blunt, but many people seem to be just fitting the MLS Gasket on it's own and expect it to cure all the problems. It may in some few cases, but the KIT was designed to overcome the problem in the Freelander application and a lot of work went into it's development. Therefore it makes more than sense to use the whole Assembly. Regards, Telfer. WARNING:- XPART do not cover under their Terms of Warranty the MLS Gasket if the uprated OIL FEED LADDER RAIL has not been fitted. Last edited by Telferstr; 28th January 2009 at 18:43..

28th January 2009, 17:48	#11
Gman2 Posted a thing or two ZTT+ 1.8T, mgf 1.8 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Warrington Posts: 1,550 Thanks: 28 Thanked 65 Times in 42 Posts	Pab: Thanks. Everything was fine until today. My wife noticed the fan was on a bit more regularly but nothing more. Later in the day driving into Leeds she noticed the fan was on, then the heater packed up followed by the engine struggling. Finally she saw the temp gauge rocket and she stopped the car. I suppose if I was driving I'd have stopped when the heater packed up but she wasn't to know. Eskezz: Everyone has a different view on this but i for one will be getting the MLS on my R75 as a precaution. M&G said of the 100's they've fitted only one has failed and that was prob to a mistake down to them. I'd rather do it when it's planned rather than HGF out in the sticks, getting it low loaded to the nearest specialist and costing more into the bargain.

28th January 2009, 18:02	#12
pab Banned MG ZT V6 190+ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Leeds Posts: 33,223 Thanks: 41 Thanked 1,614 Times in 1,416 Posts	it,s the coolant thing..you had it pressure tested,no leaks?(presume)did it use any coolant as a matter of interest pab

28th January 2009, 18:07	#13
Gman2 Posted a thing or two ZTT+ 1.8T, mgf 1.8 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Warrington Posts: 1,550 Thanks: 28 Thanked 65 Times in 42 Posts	The pressure test was fine incl the coolant cap. I thought I was loosing a small amount over, say 2 weeks. The garage also said that i was under filling the header tank and it should be almost to the top of the fins - you need every drop you can get.....

28th January 2009, 18:18	#14
pab Banned MG ZT V6 190+ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Leeds Posts: 33,223 Thanks: 41 Thanked 1,614 Times in 1,416 Posts	as you know,if you overfill above the max tab in the header it will spit it out of the cap.i find they do use a bit of coolant,and checking on a regular basis.did you ever do the t-cut diagnostic mode survey? pab

28th January 2009, 18:52	#16
Gman2 Posted a thing or two ZTT+ 1.8T, mgf 1.8 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Warrington Posts: 1,550 Thanks: 28 Thanked 65 Times in 42 Posts	Wise words Telferstr. I'm sure they are fully aware of the issues surrounding the MLS as they are a MG/Rover specialist, MGOC recommended and sadly, as a result, have seen HGF many times. However i'll contact them tomorrow to raise some of your points like the oil rail. :lol:

28th January 2009, 19:08	#18
Gman2 Posted a thing or two ZTT+ 1.8T, mgf 1.8 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Warrington Posts: 1,550 Thanks: 28 Thanked 65 Times in 42 Posts	Telfer - many thanks for your input. This is what the club is all about :lol:

29th January 2009, 16:15	#20
Gman2 Posted a thing or two ZTT+ 1.8T, mgf 1.8 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Warrington Posts: 1,550 Thanks: 28 Thanked 65 Times in 42 Posts	Ok. Had a chat with the mechanic re the oil rail and it's not getting fitted. Reason - they did initially but they found that they were needlessly replacing the oil rail that was in fact undamaged. Therefore over the past years it's just been the MLS and they've never had an issue with HGF on cars adopting this approach. All the work is warranted. Anyone care to comment