Appealing a parking ticket - would I have any luck?

[rustymotor]

Originally Posted by mh007

Do you mean you were 9 minutes over your ticket expiry time?
If so, by law (as of April 2015) you have 10 minutes 'waiting' or 'grace' time over your ticket expiry time so you can't be done anyway.
With a private parking company, you would've been far better not making any contact at all & you should never admit to being the driver.
Council of course are a little different but always worth an appeal.
The 10 minute rule still applies though & applies to free or paid for parking & includes on-street parking too (parking bays).

Hi, no I was 9 minutes in total, they apparently had a machine inside the post office where you enter your reg and it's free..


I didn't contact them, they sent the usual threatening letters and finally filed a claim on line which, I've just defended.


This is my outline defence:


1. The claimant has no locus standi in this matter, the contract to park is with a different company.

2. the main signage at the site is not an offer of a contract but an invitation to treat and the defendant denies that there was an agreed contract to breach.

3. The claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedure rules by failing to issue a letter before action and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for.

The claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that
CEL are the legal representative of the claimant but havent stated who that is when signing the form.

The defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and states that it is likely to fail anyway.


Any advice welcome..

[mh007]

Originally Posted by bl52krz

Can I just point out an important point with regards to the ‘ ten minute’ rule:- the ten minutes can only be taken at the END of the parking time on the ticket issued. It can not be taken BEFORE you put money into a parking machine for a ticket to park. One item I picked up on reading 32 pages of rules and regulations with regards to parking in/on double yellow lines and/ or restricted area’s.

Yes, very good point & the reason I have said 10 minutes over the expiry time.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by rustymotor

Hi, no I was 9 minutes in total, they apparently had a machine inside the post office where you enter your reg and it's free..


I didn't contact them, they sent the usual threatening letters and finally filed a claim on line which, I've just defended.


This is my outline defence:


1. The claimant has no locus standi in this matter, the contract to park is with a different company.

2. the main signage at the site is not an offer of a contract but an invitation to treat and the defendant denies that there was an agreed contract to breach.

3. The claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedure rules by failing to issue a letter before action and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for.

The claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that
CEL are the legal representative of the claimant but havent stated who that is when signing the form.

The defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and states that it is likely to fail anyway.


Any advice welcome..

I am intrigued. Who is named as the claimant in the form N1? Is it the company that is named on the terms offered at the car park, whoever the letters are from If different) or the legal representatives?


Also, can you explain your reasoning behind point 2? i.e. why do you believe that the terms displayed at the car park were not an invitation to form a contract and you, having parked, accepted those conditions through this action? i.e. entered into a contract?

[mh007]

Originally Posted by rustymotor

Hi, no I was 9 minutes in total, they apparently had a machine inside the post office where you enter your reg and it's free..


I didn't contact them, they sent the usual threatening letters and finally filed a claim on line which, I've just defended.


This is my outline defence:


1. The claimant has no locus standi in this matter, the contract to park is with a different company.

2. the main signage at the site is not an offer of a contract but an invitation to treat and the defendant denies that there was an agreed contract to breach.

3. The claimant has failed to follow the Civil Procedure rules by failing to issue a letter before action and the claim is too vague to see what the claim is actually for.

The claimant has also failed to show who is issuing this claim as they have stated that
CEL are the legal representative of the claimant but havent stated who that is when signing the form.

The defendant states that this is not an error but an abuse of process and therefore requests that the claim be summarily dismissed under CPR 3.4 and states that it is likely to fail anyway.


Any advice welcome..

Ahh I see, so you parked without paying anything not realising there was a charge?
Was it free to park before the new system was implemented?

The 10 minute rule doesn't apply in your case as also pointed out by bl52krz.

[rustymotor]

Hi mss point 2:


"...an expression of willingness to negotiate. A person making an invitation to treat does not intend to be bound as soon as it is accepted by the person to whom the statement is addressed." A contract is a legally binding voluntary agreement that is formed when one person makes an offer, and the other accepts it.

NI signed: CEL ( Claimants Legal Representative) CEL are the claimant.

Also they are claiming damages..no mention of how or what has been damaged..so is it trespass, breach of contract. They can't claim financial loss for free parking..

Dont want to hijack the thread..yes mh007: I've used the post office for 12 years..

[MSS]

Originally Posted by rustymotor

Hi mss point 2:


"...an expression of willingness to negotiate. A person making an invitation to treat does not intend to be bound as soon as it is accepted by the person to whom the statement is addressed." A contract is a legally binding voluntary agreement that is formed when one person makes an offer, and the other accepts it.

NI signed: CEL ( Claimants Legal Representative) CEL are the claimant.

Also they are claiming damages..no mention of how or what has been damaged..so is it trespass, breach of contract. They can't claim financial loss for free parking..

Dont want to hijack the thread..yes mh007: I've used the post office for 12 years..

Thanks rustymotor

I am sure the OP won't mind us highjacking his thread (?)

On the first point, I don't think you can reasonably consider the terms stated at the entrance to the car park to be an invitation to treat. There is no negotiation involved in car parking. I would have thought that they could only be considered an offer and the action of parking is the first and significant step you as the driver performed in accepting the offer.

On the question of the claimant, it may be that the legal representatives have made a boo boo. Of course, they could easily raise another online claim with the correct claimant named on the form.

Please keep us posted on how it goes. I am genuinely interested.

Addition:

Originally Posted by rustymotor

Also they are claiming damages..no mention of how or what has been damaged..so is it trespass, breach of contract. They can't claim financial loss for free parking..

............

Have they used the term "damages" in the N1 form or are they just making a money claim which ones assumes would be their published "tariff" for breach of contract?

[bl52krz]

Trespass Aahhh? Trying to prove an act of trespass is very tricky. Trespass is not the act of ‘trespassing’, (gaining entrance).For an act of trespass firstly you have to prove that ‘damage has been done to property’. Very hard to prove you have done damage by driving on a road or other place. Compression of the ground is not an act of ‘trespass’. This is turning into an intriguing post.

[Comfortably Numb]

Watching with interest. Just amazed at the legal knowledge (as well as every other kind of knowledge) on here.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by bl52krz

Trespass Aahhh? Trying to prove an act of trespass is very tricky. Trespass is not the act of ‘trespassing’, (gaining entrance).For an act of trespass firstly you have to prove that ‘damage has been done to property’. Very hard to prove you have done damage by driving on a road or other place. Compression of the ground is not an act of ‘trespass’. This is turning into an intriguing post.

Well, I do not believe that to be the case. Firstly, act of trespass is separate from damage.

The conditions for proving trespass are well defined and it is not at all tricky. Securing damages for trespass, i.e. getting an award of compensation, would be tricky I suspect.

Damage is altogether separate although it may occur as a result of trespass.

p.s. I am no legal expert, but just applying a little knowledge I have gained through personal experience and what I would like to consider rational thinking.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb

Watching with interest. Just amazed at the legal knowledge (as well as every other kind of knowledge) on here.

Collectively, we know everything, about everything. It is just cars we have difficulty with!