I was never told this when learning - Page 3

The Mighty Quinn · 18th January 2015, 10:27

I've driven an auto now for the last 5 yrs or so (manuals for 10yrs prior to that) and have only rarely driven a modern manual since, so maybe I'm not best placed to comment (but I will anyway!). I would of always changed down through the gears coming to a stop, not for the purposes of engine braking, but to keep the car's rpm/drive balanced - I'm not convinced from my experience of driving manuals that it's beneficial to be braking/slowing/coming to a stop in top gear - there's too much "drive" left in the car this way and coasting to a stop for the last bit doesn't strike me as being any more in control than one would otherwise be changing down through the gears.
Ok, if you're not too handy at changing gears, maybe it makes sense - and perhaps that's why young drivers are being taught this way (which is fair enough). But, if you can keep the car "comfortable" coming to a stop, I'd say you're more in control and better placed to react to any unexpected situations than a driver that's been taught just to stay in a high gear coming to a stop.

iandb1970 · 18th January 2015, 10:27

I remember reading that even Formula 1 drivers when they had truly manual cars changed down differently when going from a straight into a sharp corner. I cannot remember exactly which way round it was but apparently Senna did it one way (sequential) while Prost did it another (block change). When I had a manual I happily block changed down (I was taught that way 25 years ago) while I occasionally block changed up, but only when accelerating hard to get onto a busy road, i.e. 3rd to 5th.

Houzi · 18th January 2015, 11:03

I passed my test in 1978.Like many here was taught to use engine braking to slow down.In emergency stop,again use engine braking staying in gear and pushing in the clutch at the last moment,and indicating for every movement or turn to the left or right.
Today I still use engine braking in emergency stop,can't break the habit,though I believe you're taught to push brake&clutch simultaniously these days.To me it helps prevent locking the wheels up.Only had ABS cars for the last 8 years and have only heard it come in a couple of times on hard packed snow.I couldn't even tell you if the ABS works on my Rover yet.However with ABS(have all cars got it now?)I think it's probably counter productive.
Thinking about I don't drop down the gears to slow to a stop so much these day...depends what's happening in front of me.I'll slow it down to near idle speed then use clutch.Sure if it's moving traffic,go up&down gears as required but when coming up to lights I believe you are in control,you've got your foot on the brake,it's not going anywhere,it's not an emergency situation. I also agree it should wear the clutch less though It's never occured to me.Maybe wears the pads more but the cars can handle this as autos don't have engine braking.The only time I went down gears in autos was when on a hill.
I still indicate when necessary though I agree you shouldn't fail a test if not indicating if there's no need to(ie no other traffic)I often indicate when turning into a side road for pedestrian's benefit,though not legally necessary it stops them walking across the road in front of me.I admit to 'block changing'...I seldom use 2nd gear when changing up but that's about it.My driving style's not perfect but I think basically, just use your eyes and don't rely on the mirrors.I've avoided countless accidents but never caused any

daveb57 · 18th January 2015, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by barney bear

I have always and will always use my gears to slow me when i'm in a manual car or van. My brake pads on the van tend to last about 30% longer than other drivers who are doing comparable mileage (12-1500 miles a week). I also never block change up my gears as i don't see the point, if i have 6 gears i'm going to use 6 gears because that is the way the vehicle was designed.

As above. Could not agree more.

Had my ZT 9 years to the day.

9300 miles when purchased, 75200 when sold last June. That also included 5 trips to Poland with it! I set of discs all round and 1 set of pads in my ownership driving what is considered, for my generation, the correct way!.

Quite pleased with that!

Regards,

Dave.

spyder · 18th January 2015, 11:31

Always have and always will go down a hill in the "correct" gear using the engine braking. Yes complete brake failure is uncommon now days, but it only takes once.

I had to be certified to drive a school bus a while back and I did double declutch and use engine braking. I was told that my driving style was aggressive but I was always in control and thereby a safe driver.

The amount of cars and trucks going down a slow steep hill with their brake lights permanently on, is terrifying at times.
Go down a incline the same speed that you would go up it, used to be the golden rule.

As for not using indicators-I know I have a BMW engine, BUT....

Houzi · 18th January 2015, 11:35

I think I probably go faster up a steep hill than down ha ha.Something to do with the steep appearance.....looks more dangerous going down but just want to get to the top when going up

topman · 18th January 2015, 11:40

I quite often block change seems perfectly natural given the right situation. I think not doing it is a generational thing from when older cars were the norm with drum brakes, limited power etc.

Anthony & Maricel · 18th January 2015, 11:51

I was taught both ways to drive in the Army, HGV class 2. They taught us brake and block change down to save fuel, accelerate and block change up so you don't hold traffic up behind you. Sometimes it wasn't safe to brake and block change down, because you also had to think about the load you was carrying. Sequential gear changing down, was mainly used when anticipating the changing of signal lights. The idea was to keep the vehicle moving, so if you saw the lights were red. You would sequentially change down, so by the time you got their the lights were green and you carried on without stopping.

COLVERT · 18th January 2015, 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by MangoMan

I invariably go from 2nd to 4th, obviously car dependent as well as conditions. And if in 4/5th and I know I'm gonna come to a stop ahead at a robots I go into neutral and just coast to that stop. If things start moving before I stop I just choose the correct gear for the speed I'm doin' and pop it into that and proceed. I've done this for years, (and I mean years) so it's not a new thing.

Maybe that's why I get around 28-30 mpg around town..

I'm firmly with the GEARS to GO and BRAKES to SLOW brigade.

However I believe that different circumstances determine how you slow down or brake.

For instance DOWNHILL---in gear.

Relaxed changing up 1-3-5 if you are not holding anyone else up.

NEVER away in second except downhill. It's CRUEL to the clutch.

With the problems associated with the Rover slave cylinders the less times in use the longer they will last ( ie Block changing. )
Not changing down through the gears is also good for them.

Comparative costs between pads and your cars transmission are enormous.

If I see a traffic light change to red at 50 yards or so to the light I'll drop into neutral and coast to the lights.

These are all personal opinions based on 57 years of driving all types of vehicles from Fiat 500's to E-type Jags and lorries on the roads.
In all that time I've never had an accident or made an insurance claim; my wife, however---

So I guess I must be doing something right.-

Colvert.--

PS. If you really want to become fully aware of how to brake, accelerate and learn safety on the road buy and ride a motorbike for 12 months. Now that will make you become REALLY aware of the road and what the other folk around you are doing.

RPWC · 18th January 2015, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yella Fella

I was watching the telly the other night about ways to save fuel. An advanced driver instructor said it was ok to change up gears "in block" eg from 3rd to 5th.

I was always told to increase speed smoothly through the gear box.

He also said To stop in what ever gear you are in and not come down the gears into the correct gear for the speed you are doing.

I always reduce my speed and slip into the correct gear for that speed.

I'm thinking it wouldn't be good for the engine or gearbox to go from 3rd to 5th etc.

I was told this when I started having PCV lessons 12 years ago, not so much the skip on the up change,but certainly on the down. The instructor told me that brakes slow the vehicle down,not the gears,I also heard that some training organisations that were providing the training for the driver cpc and nvq,were telling the clients to skip change on the up too.

18th January 2015, 11:31	#25
spyder This is my second home 75 CDT Auto Tourer , Rover 45 , Astra, Zaffira, Chev Captiva Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Wilts Posts: 3,342 Thanks: 203 Thanked 436 Times in 360 Posts	Always have and always will go down a hill in the "correct" gear using the engine braking. Yes complete brake failure is uncommon now days, but it only takes once. I had to be certified to drive a school bus a while back and I did double declutch and use engine braking. I was told that my driving style was aggressive but I was always in control and thereby a safe driver. The amount of cars and trucks going down a slow steep hill with their brake lights permanently on, is terrifying at times. Go down a incline the same speed that you would go up it, used to be the golden rule. As for not using indicators-I know I have a BMW engine, BUT.... __________________ Chrome skull caps, EGR cleaned (original housing), Mondeo lower mounting, 12V outlets in the armrest and tourer boot, cat fixed, working FBH, Lidl plenum covers, DD with reverse camera.New speakesr/Tweeters with MDF rings. wood dash, Memory leather seats, wooden finished steering and handbrake, Xenon headlights.

18th January 2015, 10:27	#21
The Mighty Quinn Posted a thing or two 2004 mk1 Rover 75 1.8T Club SE saloon (auto) Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Enniskillen Posts: 1,307 Thanks: 670 Thanked 254 Times in 222 Posts	I've driven an auto now for the last 5 yrs or so (manuals for 10yrs prior to that) and have only rarely driven a modern manual since, so maybe I'm not best placed to comment (but I will anyway!). I would of always changed down through the gears coming to a stop, not for the purposes of engine braking, but to keep the car's rpm/drive balanced - I'm not convinced from my experience of driving manuals that it's beneficial to be braking/slowing/coming to a stop in top gear - there's too much "drive" left in the car this way and coasting to a stop for the last bit doesn't strike me as being any more in control than one would otherwise be changing down through the gears. Ok, if you're not too handy at changing gears, maybe it makes sense - and perhaps that's why young drivers are being taught this way (which is fair enough). But, if you can keep the car "comfortable" coming to a stop, I'd say you're more in control and better placed to react to any unexpected situations than a driver that's been taught just to stay in a high gear coming to a stop.

18th January 2015, 10:27	#22
iandb1970 Avid contributor Rover 75 Connoisseur SE Tourer 2.5 V6 Auto Hi-Line Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Highclere Posts: 233 Thanks: 30 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	I remember reading that even Formula 1 drivers when they had truly manual cars changed down differently when going from a straight into a sharp corner. I cannot remember exactly which way round it was but apparently Senna did it one way (sequential) while Prost did it another (block change). When I had a manual I happily block changed down (I was taught that way 25 years ago) while I occasionally block changed up, but only when accelerating hard to get onto a busy road, i.e. 3rd to 5th.

18th January 2015, 11:03	#23
Houzi Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Gravesend Posts: 92 Thanks: 14 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	I passed my test in 1978.Like many here was taught to use engine braking to slow down.In emergency stop,again use engine braking staying in gear and pushing in the clutch at the last moment,and indicating for every movement or turn to the left or right. Today I still use engine braking in emergency stop,can't break the habit,though I believe you're taught to push brake&clutch simultaniously these days.To me it helps prevent locking the wheels up.Only had ABS cars for the last 8 years and have only heard it come in a couple of times on hard packed snow.I couldn't even tell you if the ABS works on my Rover yet.However with ABS(have all cars got it now?)I think it's probably counter productive. Thinking about I don't drop down the gears to slow to a stop so much these day...depends what's happening in front of me.I'll slow it down to near idle speed then use clutch.Sure if it's moving traffic,go up&down gears as required but when coming up to lights I believe you are in control,you've got your foot on the brake,it's not going anywhere,it's not an emergency situation. I also agree it should wear the clutch less though It's never occured to me.Maybe wears the pads more but the cars can handle this as autos don't have engine braking.The only time I went down gears in autos was when on a hill. I still indicate when necessary though I agree you shouldn't fail a test if not indicating if there's no need to(ie no other traffic)I often indicate when turning into a side road for pedestrian's benefit,though not legally necessary it stops them walking across the road in front of me.I admit to 'block changing'...I seldom use 2nd gear when changing up but that's about it.My driving style's not perfect but I think basically, just use your eyes and don't rely on the mirrors.I've avoided countless accidents but never caused any

18th January 2015, 11:35	#26
Houzi Regular poster Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Gravesend Posts: 92 Thanks: 14 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	I think I probably go faster up a steep hill than down ha ha.Something to do with the steep appearance.....looks more dangerous going down but just want to get to the top when going up

18th January 2015, 11:40	#27
topman This is my second home MG ZT-T 190 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 5,493 Thanks: 372 Thanked 647 Times in 534 Posts	I quite often block change seems perfectly natural given the right situation. I think not doing it is a generational thing from when older cars were the norm with drum brakes, limited power etc.

18th January 2015, 11:51	#28
Anthony & Maricel This is my second home Rover 75 Connoisseur 1.8L pre production S573 AOX Vin 001493 Feb 1999 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 5,145 Thanks: 642 Thanked 318 Times in 259 Posts	I was taught both ways to drive in the Army, HGV class 2. They taught us brake and block change down to save fuel, accelerate and block change up so you don't hold traffic up behind you. Sometimes it wasn't safe to brake and block change down, because you also had to think about the load you was carrying. Sequential gear changing down, was mainly used when anticipating the changing of signal lights. The idea was to keep the vehicle moving, so if you saw the lights were red. You would sequentially change down, so by the time you got their the lights were green and you carried on without stopping.