Xenon lights, their fitting and the legalities thereof

[Tracker]

I've followed this and previous threads on the subject with interest as I would like to retro fit xenons at some point. On a slightly different tack, I haven't been able to discover whether, if one wanted to fit the front and rear auto levelling units and could obtain all the necessary parts, the wiring connections for them are likely to be already available on the car. Has anyone ever actually done this or know for certain if its the case? My car has halogen projectors as standard. I am aware that a T4 session might be necessary as regards getting the new master switch and everything else to work.

[TomRS]

Originally Posted by Tracker

I've followed this and previous threads on the subject with interest as I would like to retro fit xenons at some point. On a slightly different tack, I haven't been able to discover whether, if one wanted to fit the front and rear auto levelling units and could obtain all the necessary parts, the wiring connections for them are likely to be already available on the car. Has anyone ever actually done this or know for certain if its the case? My car has halogen projectors as standard. I am aware that a T4 session might be necessary as regards getting the new master switch and everything else to work.

I have some auto level sensors front and rear if you want them!

I'll be having a big clear out of the Unit in the coming few weeks as i really need to get things sold!

[clf]

Originally Posted by T-Cut

Indeed. Plus the jet washing system. This will require a twin pump washer reservoir, plus a T4 session to make it all work. Basically, the MOT says if these controls are present, they should be working correctly.

TC

and a bbus alarm sounder if going OEM route.

the thing with hid, projectors or standard halogen, is that they were all fitted as manufacturer fitted equipment. so if you replaced two vandalised headlights by going to a scrap yard, and you didn't know of the different light units available. you simply asked for a pair of headlights and fitted them, they pass MOT, they work and level with the LSM , all as they did before, how can you be held accountable? to some people, lights are lights and that is it.

putting in hid bulbs though from halogen will be different, because you would have to go out of your way to specify hid over halogen as well as wire them differently.

[TomRS]

Originally Posted by clf

and a bbus alarm sounder if going OEM route.

the thing with hid, projectors or standard halogen, is that they were all fitted as manufacturer fitted equipment. so if you replaced two vandalised headlights by going to a scrap yard, and you didn't know of the different light units available. you simply asked for a pair of headlights and fitted them, they pass MOT, they work and level with the LSM , all as they did before, how can you be held accountable? to some people, lights are lights and that is it.

putting in hid bulbs though from halogen will be different, because you would have to go out of your way to specify hid over halogen as well as wire them differently.

Couldnt be put better

[sworks]

Originally Posted by trikey

Early xenons don't have any markings on them so no one would know, I have fitted a few sets and mr mot man has been none the wiser about wash kit or self levelling.

This is the key thing, if you fit xenons and the tester knows they are xenons then they are within their rights to fail the car if there is no self levelling or headlamp wash, even though they will still adjust with the rotary wheel

[neilbaker86]

I really cannot be bothered to get embroiled in another lengthy argument with people who don't want to listen because it doesn't suit them to. But just because your car has passed an MOT does NOT mean your vehicle is road legal.

Your vehicle may need an MOT to be legal, but having one doesn't mean it is.

Vehicle lighting is regulated by ECE regulations, your vehicle (when new) needed to meet these regulations, these regulations basically state that gas-discharge headlamps needs to be fitted with self-levelling adjustment and washers. Therefore the DoT stated that the same rules should therefore apply to people seeking to retrofit them.

Legislation regarding MOTs has largely been playing catch up for years.

At the end of the day, if it came to it and you were involved in some form of litigation, possibly through a road traffic collision, it would be down to you as the driver of the vehicle to argue your case in court. However, if you were up against a barrister from an insurance company who has discovered that the lighting on your vehicle did not meet type approval, then I personally wouldn't want to be in that position.

[clf]

Originally Posted by sworks

This is the key thing, if you fit xenons and the tester knows they are xenons then they are within their rights to fail the car if there is no self levelling or headlamp wash, even though they will still adjust with the rotary wheel

I am not so sure. As I read it, it is basically, if they are fitted they must work. Early Xenons didnt have leveling systems from what i recall (generally, not referring to 75/ZT) . When I had my first MOT, the tester asked me to squirt the headlight washers, I replied 'just as well I fixed them, I wasnt going to' His reply was, 'well they are there, but you could have taken the nozzles off, and I wouldnt have asked'

I would imagine a failure would only be justified if they were beyond the limits of the beam aim limits. Certainly that is how they are tested here in N.I. Adjusters were not tested at all (how they would I dont know, because the beam measuring equipment is on a rail, before the suspension test), and the last MOT the washers werent tested.

[Jakg]

Originally Posted by clf

I am not so sure. As I read it, it is basically, if they are fitted they must work. Early Xenons didnt have leveling systems from what i recall (generally not 75/ZT) . When I had my first MOT, the tester asked me to squirt the headlight washers, I replied 'just as well I fixed them, I wasnt going to' His reply was, 'well they are there, but you could have taken the nozzles off, and I wouldnt have asked'

I would imagine a failure would only be justified if they were beyond the limits of the beam aim limits. Certainly that is how they are tested here in N.I. Adjusters were not tested at all (how they would I dont know, because the beam measuring equipment is on a rail, before the suspension test), and the last MOT the washers werent tested.

For some reason MOTs in NI work differently with regards to HIDs / Xenons.

[clf]

Originally Posted by neilbaker86

I really cannot be bothered to get embroiled in another lengthy argument with people who don't want to listen because it doesn't suit them to. But just because your car has passed an MOT does NOT mean your vehicle is road legal. It doesnt mean it is legal at all. It means at the time of the test, it was of a satisfactory roadworthy condition.

Your vehicle may need an MOT to be legal, but having one doesn't mean it is.

Vehicle lighting is regulated by ECE regulations, your vehicle (when new) needed to meet these regulations, these regulations basically state that gas-discharge headlamps needs to be fitted with self-levelling adjustment and washers. Therefore the DoT stated that the same rules should therefore apply to people seeking to retrofit them. But if the light unit is 'E' marked, as an ignorant consumer, you could easily argue, that with this, you believed the lights were suited for the use you were intending them for. The retrofitting I believe is largely aimed at those fitting HID bulbs into lights with reflectors designed for halogen lights. Whereas our xenons have the appropriate reflectors fitted. Incidentally I do agree, that one should fit the appropriate cleaning system and leveling to reduce glare and dazzle to other road users - it is inconsiderate at the least.

Legislation regarding MOTs has largely been playing catch up for years.

At the end of the day, if it came to it and you were involved in some form of litigation, possibly through a road traffic collision, it would be down to you as the driver of the vehicle to argue your case in court. However, if you were up against a barrister from an insurance company who has discovered that the lighting on your vehicle did not meet type approval, then I personally wouldn't want to be in that position.

Recently (I cannot remember where I read it probably on this site) there was a case where a judge ruled that because an undeclared modification, did not affect the incident, it was not a reason to not pay out in that case. So in a perfectly lit day, where lights were not on, someone crashes into you, then the argument would not exist. However, if the other party was to say they were dazzled by your lights, and they were found to be non standard, you would have to argue your case then, which if they were 'E' marked, as ours are, I think you could reasonably argue your case.

[clf]

Originally Posted by Jakg

For some reason MOTs in NI work differently with regards to HIDs / Xenons.

MOTin general, in NI are very different to England and Scotland lol.