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Old 2nd June 2020, 15:56   #41
Bolin
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Lost livelihoods can be rebuilt.

Lost lives cannot be brought back from the dead.



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Originally Posted by marinabrian View Post
Of course in the main people do not die from this, they die with it
Brian, what evidence do you have for this?

Can doctors even be really sure to what extent the effect of fighting off this virus had had on other condition(s) to which somebody has sadly succumbed?

Certainly the number of excess deaths the ONS has reported so far is not encouraging, whatever their cause(s) may truly be. Over 50,000 and counting.....
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Old 2nd June 2020, 16:59   #42
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Originally Posted by Bolin View Post
Lost livelihoods can be rebuilt.



Lost lives cannot be brought back from the dead.











Brian, what evidence do you have for this?



Can doctors even be really sure to what extent the effect of fighting off this virus had had on other condition(s) to which somebody has sadly succumbed?



Certainly the number of excess deaths the ONS has reported so far is not encouraging, whatever their cause(s) may truly be. Over 50,000 and counting.....
Viruses dont kill you, the secondary issues they cause are what kills people. The various who and other statistics from various institutions have broken down the stats (or they had some available at beginning of april), where people had underlying conditions.

Eg mid treatment for cancer etc, compromised immune system, death may occur from pneumonia or another bacterial infection. Similarly a person contracting covid 19, their immune system goes into overdrive, causing a susceptibility to pneumonia or another bacterial infection, both patients die from pneumonia or other bacterial infection. Crucially, both patients are listed as dying from.complications of covid 19.

Since autopsies would not be carried out in either, their deaths are both counted as covid 19 related. This practice of counting both was supposed to have changed, but I have stopped looking for the data.

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Old 2nd June 2020, 18:27   #43
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Oh no, and chance spending money?
Exactly,no clothes shops for her,no betting shop for me,never had it so good.
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Old 2nd June 2020, 21:13   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolin View Post
Lost livelihoods can be rebuilt.

Lost lives cannot be brought back from the dead.





Brian, what evidence do you have for this?

Can doctors even be really sure to what extent the effect of fighting off this virus had had on other condition(s) to which somebody has sadly succumbed?

Certainly the number of excess deaths the ONS has reported so far is not encouraging, whatever their cause(s) may truly be. Over 50,000 and counting.....
Colin, it is a fact you don't die from Covid 19, but you may die with Covid 19.

Alan has already pointed out the difference, but I'm going to lay down a scenario for you.

If I had fallen off my pushbike three weeks ago, and suffered a life threatening injury to which I eventually succumbed too, I would have been counted as a Covid death.

Of course the fact I'd been run over by a car after falling off my bike was irrelevant

It is quite easy to provide reasonably accurate data as to the trends that identify those in the population who are most likely to be adversely affected by exposure to the virus.

This is of course not a definitive, and of course there is only one thing in life that can be 100% assured

Financially, just in case you think I'm motivated that way, I could exist without any lifestyle adjustment for around ten years if I were to liquidate my company assets, however that is not the point.......if I were 30 years younger and was facing a future of mass unemployment with little chance of obtaining gainful employment, I would be very bitter that people who were either financially secure, or enjoy a bullet proof pension were so blasé as to assume the financial black hole currently being created was one that could be fixed.

We have had worse diseases to face, and with greater attrition, yet the world didn't close up shop???

If the figures are to be believed as to the natural R rate of three, then taking into account the distinct possibility of the virus having been seeded in this country as early as January.......take a look HERE and assuming a seed of one person from the beginning of February to the beginning of lockdown fifty one days later, how many infections does that make???

3 to the power of 51 = 21536 9396307555 7766310747, so can I ask a question, how come we are not swamped with critically ill patients, despite the stable door being shut seven weeks later??

The figures simply do not stack up, and to have the normal provision of healthcare service put on hold as a result of the mythical reproduction rate of this virus being three, is madness, as is the entire suspension of a country.

It needs to be put into context, and the risk level along with it, I sympathise with people who have lost loved ones as a result of Covid infection, but no more than I would sympathise with someone who had lost a loved one to cancer, a heart attack, a stroke, road traffic accident or even old age.

At the end of the day, if you feel uncomfortable or unsafe dealing with life as it being currently presented to us, it is your prerogative to deal with it as you see appropriate to both yourself and those you are directly related.

It should also be mine and any others prerogative, to deal with life as they see fit, and within limits of what is considered reasonable to both themselves and those around them.

This is a very binary choice, you either participate in life at a level you feel comfortable with, or you don't, we do not have a choice of when we die, but quantity of life must not be confused with quality of life, therefore we must make the best of the time we have, or forever suffer regret.

Brian
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Old 4th June 2020, 06:24   #45
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The U.K. daily death rate is still worryingly high. It doesn’t seem to me that the virus is under control. I know we have to get on with restarting the economy, I’m just don’t have the faith in the UKs ability to track and trace flare ups.
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Old 4th June 2020, 06:44   #46
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The U.K. daily death rate is still worryingly high. It doesn’t seem to me that the virus is under control. I know we have to get on with restarting the economy, I’m just don’t have the faith in the UKs ability to track and trace flare ups.
You should try and not bother watching the diatribe being currently served up on a daily basis Michael, or indeed worrying about the track and trace fiasco, the latter would only be effective if there were a 100% uptake, and 100% compliance by every citizen of the country........remember the alleged R rate of 3

The top and bottom of it is a simple one, the risk to a person raises for each decade we have spent on the planet, and if you feel you are at risk, then stay at home.......... nobody will think poorly of anyone as a result of their personal choice at this level.

Quite frankly though, if my time is up as a result of anything at all, then it's up.

Worrying about it won't change a thing apart from having an adverse affect on my quality of life.

The one thing that has improved my outlook on life immeasurably of late, is to stop listening to the daily waffle "briefing", or listening to the warring politicos.........it's rather refreshing

Brian
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Old 4th June 2020, 09:00   #47
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Originally Posted by mbev51 View Post
The U.K. daily death rate is still worryingly high. It doesn’t seem to me that the virus is under control. I know we have to get on with restarting the economy, I’m just don’t have the faith in the UKs ability to track and trace flare ups.
It is still high but reducing, a friend of mines partner is in a care home and everyone was tested last week - staff and inmates - all negative.

I do however wonder if our rate is so high because we count everything and not like some other countries that are a "little selective" and massage their figures.
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Old 4th June 2020, 09:03   #48
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Originally Posted by marinabrian View Post

Worrying about it won't change a thing apart from having an adverse affect on my quality of life.

The one thing that has improved my outlook on life immeasurably of late, is to stop listening to the daily waffle "briefing", or listening to the warring politicos.........it's rather refreshing

Brian
Agreed, even when there's some good news the journos want to put a negative spin on it.
especially the BBC - and to think that you and I are paying their over inflated wages for this drivvel.
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Old 5th June 2020, 15:22   #49
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357 is far too many deaths in last 24 hours to have relaxed the rules starting when we did. I’m not worried for myself, I’m only concerned for the good of the country as a whole.
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Old 5th June 2020, 16:21   #50
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The UK has become only the second country to report more than 40,000 coronavirus deaths, according to the latest government figures today.

By any standard, comparison or measure this is appalling.

Hopefully, the media keep highlighting this issue, as each death is a personal family Tragedy.
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