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Old 19th January 2019, 11:42   #71
Dallas
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Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
Slightly off topic, but what are people’s views on 4x4 tyres for driving across a terrain off road covered in rocks/boulders, through the bush and desert, tube or tubeless?
Hi Phil, I was always told that tubeless is better, if you get a puncture a tubeless tyre deflates more slowly than a tubed tyre.
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Old 19th January 2019, 12:28   #72
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Last year, in front of me, a Discovery and a Nissan 4x4 hit each other going in opposite directions.

I couldn’t believe the explosion of dust, bits of plastic and car components.
The Nissan flipped onto its side and disappeared into the ditch on my side of the road.

I found a safe place to stop and legged it back to the vehicle. The driver was inside the vehicle standing on the front passenger door, calling for help through the driver’s window.

Another chap arrived at the scene at the same time and was recently first aid trained.
We gained access, through the rear tailgate and retracted the seats. Once we were happy it was safe to move her, we got her out through the tailgate. It stank of gunpower where the airbag detonators had gone off.

Despite her rather undignified exit from the vehicle she was absolutely fine.
There was not a mark on her and she jogged up to the Discovery to make sure they were ok.
She was fine too.

However, the vehicles were not and looked absolutely destroyed. There was plastic and components everywhere. I remember seeing a driveshaft lying in the road, and a few yards up, a wheel.

The traffic flow was around 50mph in each direction, so they walked away from maybe a 100mph impact.

There is no doubt in my mind that if this had happened a few years earlier they both would have been seriously injured or died.

The incident was certainly an eye opener for me.
The vehicles did their job, as did the designers.
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Old 19th January 2019, 12:56   #73
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I would definately challenge, in every users case, that driving a 4x4 is not compensation for some other deficiency, personal or otherwise.
It is this kind of response that really irritates me, be it pointed at 4x4s, convertables, red sports cars etc. It is childish and purile and I have no tolerance for it.
I have been challenged on my 'vehicle choice' too many times, and its old. If the guy down the road chooses to run a vehicle of his choice, it is his choice, and no business of mine or anyone else.

And before critisim is directed at my overweight gas guzzling vehicle, it is more economical than a KV6 75.
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Old 19th January 2019, 13:19   #74
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Hi Phil.
I used to run tubeless tyres inflated with Nitrogen in SWA and long overland trips and carry spare tubes. I sill have a 4x4 12v compressor and heavy-duty tyre repair kit to repair punctures at the side of the road. Plus a bottle of meths to pop the tyre back on.

I never used the backup inner tube.

That is quite a choice of typically African vehicles though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
Slightly off topic, but what are people’s views on 4x4 tyres for driving across a terrain off road covered in rocks/boulders, through the bush and desert, tube or tubeless?

Here in Kenya, we have a pool of 4x4s on our small holding, shared by 3 families, all related. The 4x4’s: a Range Rover, 3 Land Rovers, Jeep, Pajero and a Trooper. The roads and off road can be quite punishing and there is always a 4x4 needing repairs, but we are never short of borrowing one. It is useful knowing how to drive a 4x4 without having to rely on an onboard computer. We use our for safari and carrying manure in the back, work horses.

What I have not seen mentioned is the status certain brands of 4x4 carry in Kenya. If someone drives a Land Rover or a Toyota Land Cruiser, they are considered to be part of the smart set, certainly not the living dead
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Old 19th January 2019, 13:33   #75
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I would have thought my point is obvious, that a monstrosity like a 4x4, a vehicle clearly designed and built to be used off road, has now become another fashion accessory for use on the school run by people who feel the need to be more secure whilst they are driving 1-2 miles to school and back.
Rover 75 wheelbase = 2746mm
Defender 90 wheelbase = 384mm LESS
Freelander wheelbase = 87mm LESS

Both of these 4x4 models have smaller footprint than a 75, so monstrosity I think not. For sure I would agree that if you live in the city you probably don’t need one. The urban masses have unfortunately affected the rural community life in so many ways, and by decrying the 4x4 does not help the situation.

I would also suggest that the 90 has more green credentials than your average tin box, and subject to the green taliban will still be around in years to come, by that time the average box will be long gone.
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Old 19th January 2019, 16:11   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder View Post
Hi Phil.
I used to run tubeless tyres inflated with Nitrogen in SWA and long overland trips and carry spare tubes. I sill have a 4x4 12v compressor and heavy-duty tyre repair kit to repair punctures at the side of the road. Plus a bottle of meths to pop the tyre back on.

I never used the backup inner tube.

That is quite a choice of typically African vehicles though.
Thank you Craig and Wes, I recently had a puncture caused by an M6 100mm visiting someone else's house. We use tubeless but I have heard, some drivers add on a tube or carry one as a spare, like yourself. I brought out a 12v compressor from the UK, made by the RAC but it was useless - not made for 4x4, so had to do it the hard way. The tyre fitter said he had to do a heat weld to repair the puncture as the hole was too big.

Thank you Craig and Wes for your special insights. I have not seen Nitrogen here, but we are 3rd world.

p.s I forgot to ask, do you have a favourite brand of 4x4 tyre? I have B F Goodrich on at the moment and they still have plenty of tread. Its always interesting to hear about the reliability and safety of other brands, tried and tested.

Last edited by Gate Keeper; 19th January 2019 at 16:33.. Reason: p.s added
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Old 19th January 2019, 16:35   #77
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I have not seen Nitrogen here, but we are 3rd world.
Nitrogen is only useful in in airplane and race car tires. It is drier than air and your tire pressures do not change with temperature variations. It is also not free like air is (well, except for some greedy gas stations). You're not missing anything.

Cheers,
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Old 19th January 2019, 16:42   #78
Dallas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
Thank you Craig and Wes, I recently had a puncture caused by an M6 100mm visiting someone else's house. We use tubeless but I have heard, some drivers add on a tube or carry one as a spare, like yourself. I brought out a 12v compressor from the UK, made by the RAC but it was useless - not made for 4x4, so had to do it the hard way. The tyre fitter said he had to do a heat weld to repair the puncture as the hole was too big.

Thank you Craig and Wes for your special insights. I have not seen Nitrogen here, but we are 3rd world.
Hey Phil, you say you have a Trooper in your fleet of 4x4's, would that be a first or second generation? My first 4x4 was a first gen petrol model, never let me down not once.

Looking back now she was very old and basic, but she was a beast. I understand these Troopers, Land Cruisers, Pajero's etc are very popular over in your neck of the woods, many are still in good condition, is that true?

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Old 19th January 2019, 16:59   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
Slightly off topic, but what are people’s views on 4x4 tyres for driving across a terrain off road covered in rocks/boulders, through the bush and desert, tube or tubeless?

Here in Kenya, we have a pool of 4x4s on our small holding, shared by 3 families, all related. The 4x4’s: a Range Rover, 3 Land Rovers, Jeep, Pajero and a Trooper. The roads and off road can be quite punishing and there is always a 4x4 needing repairs, but we are never short of borrowing one. It is useful knowing how to drive a 4x4 without having to rely on an onboard computer. We use our for safari and carrying manure in the back, work horses.

What I have not seen mentioned is the status certain brands of 4x4 carry in Kenya. If someone drives a Land Rover or a Toyota Land Cruiser, they are considered to be part of the smart set, certainly not the living dead
As regards tyres for off road use I would say tubed every time. My old alloy wheels on the RR were for a tubed tyre and whilst you could have a tubeless tyre fitted you had to have a tube in it.

Tubeless tyres are IMO a liability when off-roading because if you break the bead you have a flat tyre out in the middle of no-where.

With a tubed tyre you can lower the tyre pressures to provide more grip over rough terrain then simply pump them up again with a foot pump or what I preferred- an electric pump that just plugged into the cigarette socket.
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Old 19th January 2019, 23:24   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slovcan View Post
Nitrogen is only useful in in airplane and race car tires. It is drier than air and your tire pressures do not change with temperature variations. It is also not free like air is (well, except for some greedy gas stations). You're not missing anything.

Cheers,
Glenn
In temperatures of 35-42 degrees in the African desert, it has it's advantages, the tar melts at times. We used to refill accumulators and could not use the last of the bottles, many garages in Africa (Tiger wheel and tyre Phil ?) do supply it free as well.
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