Brexit negotiation in a nutshel - Page 16

Darcydog · 22nd November 2017, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustymotor

I don't see why not..France and Germany blocked Polish workers for years and against the EU rules on freedom of movement.

IMO, we would have had a good chance to negotiate a free trade agreement given we are a big financial contributor.

Trade rules are broken constantly, for example..the USA has set quotas for Chinese imports, the Chinese just ship via South America and get around the quotas..

Oh yes - don’t start me on how certain EU member States bend and bent the rules for their own ends!

I also believe we in the U.K. are guilty of gold plating EU rules.

A classic example was our cheese industry - the EU susgested production and storage rules - our civil servants put this into law and so small local wonderful cheese makers went out of business.

In contrast France - who has some fabulous cheeses matured in caves! - simply said -“OK - but where traditional methods are established - then we will leave things as they are”.

I have alway been as frustrated with the UK’s gold plating of EU directives as I have been with what the original EEC that I voted to join has morphed into over time.

I did not vote for a common currency ( thank god we are not in it) nor did I vote for free movement or a United States of Europe.

Stevie25 · 22nd November 2017, 15:41

After today's Budget.

#Brexit is already costing £3.7b.

Let’s spend it on the NHS instead.

Just saying!

mystabe · 22nd November 2017, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcydog

Oh yes - don’t start me on how certain EU member States bend and bent the rules for their own ends!

I also believe we in the U.K. are guilty of gold plating EU rules.

A classic example was our cheese industry - the EU susgested production and storage rules - our civil servants put this into law and so small local wonderful cheese makers went out of business.

In contrast France - who has some fabulous cheeses matured in caves! - simply said -“OK - but where traditional methods are established - then we will leave things as they are”.

I have alway been as frustrated with the UK’s gold plating of EU directives as I have been with what the original EEC that I voted to join has morphed into over time.

I did not vote for a common currency ( thank god we are not in it) nor did I vote for free movement or a United States of Europe.

Ah well, there's the rub - we sort of played fair while no one else was. The UK is also responsible for some of the 'EU's more stupid directives which again everyone conveniently forgets/doesn't realise

The Euro no (and actualy that's a great example of what we could do - everyone else has it), but free movement is fine in my book. I see no evidence of it taking British jobs from suitable people who want them.

mystabe · 22nd November 2017, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevie25

After today's Budget.

#Brexit is already costing £3.7b.

Let’s spend it on the NHS instead.

Just saying!

And next month?

SplendidChap · 22nd November 2017, 17:20

I thought the European combined military force was quite a good idea. Might have stopped us getting involved in Iraq. Might have avoided the farce of paying for aircraft carriers only to equip them with US owned and controlled planes. The USA is considering reducing its military in Europe while Russia seems bent on expansion. It's all very nice to sing rule Britannia and recall Nelson et al, but in the real modern world we can't afford to defend ourselves on our own. Two world wars demonstrated how much a free Europe needs America. Trump is quite right when he says Europe ought to spend more on defending itself, and sending us the bill for US forces plays very well at home. Or perhaps Putin can be trusted... We're still in NATO along with most of Europe. I don't see any of the Brexiters complaining about that pan European organisation.

HarryM1BYT · 22nd November 2017, 17:57

These are quite long reads, especially the original document (by a far sighted individual) from when we were hood winked into joining, but worth the effort.

Copied from another forum...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...years-ago.html
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...British-public
http://www.wrhip.co.uk/notes-on-fco-301048.html

Just search for -
FCO 30/1048

mystabe · 22nd November 2017, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

These are quite long reads, especially the original document (by a far sighted individual) from when we were hood winked into joining, but worth the effort.

Copied from another forum...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...years-ago.html
https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...British-public
http://www.wrhip.co.uk/notes-on-fco-301048.html

Just search for -
FCO 30/1048

Non of that matters, you can't turn the clock back. This is NOW, not 1975 - a fact a lot of people seem to struggle to grasp.

rustymotor · 23rd November 2017, 03:24

Interesting points of view expressed in those articles Harry.

If we could cast our minds back to 1975 and United Kingdom European Community (Common Market) membership referendum 5th June 1975.

Results
Votes %

Yes 17,378,581 67.23%

No 8,470,073 32.77% Valid votes 25,848,654 99.79% Invalid or blank votes 54,540 0.21% Total votes 25,903,194 100.00% Registered voters/turnout 40,086,677 64.62% source

Given the points raised in those articles and the 75 referendum, we the public can hardly say we were hoodwinked by Ted Heath in to joining the common market and, giving away sovereignty!

During Heath's reign we suffered power cuts, shortages of materials and 3 and 4 day working weeks.

On the other hand, the Brexit vote will trigger a power grab by the conservatives, no doubt we will see more decriminalisation and dilution of workers rights. The unemployment figures massaged by zero hours contracts and the gig market. A downturn in our economy and stunted growth as predicted by the OBR.

AndyN01 · 23rd November 2017, 07:13

I wonder how many other "policy" type documents reveal just how much information and likely scenarios we don't know..... but politicians do and are deliberately "hiding" from the public.

I wonder what makes me so sceptical about politicians and their honesty and integrity....

Andy.

rustymotor · 23rd November 2017, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyN01

I wonder how many other "policy" type documents reveal just how much information and likely scenarios we don't know..... but politicians do and are deliberately "hiding" from the public.

I wonder what makes me so sceptical about politicians and their honesty and integrity....

Andy.

Well yes but, Harold Wilson was of the mind Heath had given away far too much as a price for joining that's why we had the referendum in 75

You can't subscribe to conspiracy and treason when the country voted to stay in..

22nd November 2017, 17:57	#156
HarryM1BYT This is my second home 75 Contemporary SE Mk II 2004 Man. Sal. CDTi 135ps, FBH on red diesel, WinCE6 DD Join Date: May 2010 Location: Leeds Posts: 17,273 Thanks: 2,160 Thanked 2,061 Times in 1,586 Posts	These are quite long reads, especially the original document (by a far sighted individual) from when we were hood winked into joining, but worth the effort. Copied from another forum... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...years-ago.html https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...British-public http://www.wrhip.co.uk/notes-on-fco-301048.html Just search for - FCO 30/1048 __________________ Harry How To's and items I offer for free, or just to cover the cost of my expenses... http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...40#post1764540 Fix a poor handbrake; DIY ABS diagnostic unit; Loan of the spanner needed to change the CDT belts; free OBD diagnostics +MAF; Correct Bosch MAF cheap; DVB-T install in an ex-hi-line system; DD install with a HK amp; FBH servicing. I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

23rd November 2017, 03:24	#158
rustymotor Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: May 2017 Location: Hull Posts: 1,848 Thanks: 216 Thanked 432 Times in 340 Posts	Interesting points of view expressed in those articles Harry. If we could cast our minds back to 1975 and United Kingdom European Community (Common Market) membership referendum 5th June 1975. Results Votes % Yes 17,378,581 67.23% No 8,470,073 32.77% Valid votes 25,848,654 99.79% Invalid or blank votes 54,540 0.21% Total votes 25,903,194 100.00% Registered voters/turnout 40,086,677 64.62% source Given the points raised in those articles and the 75 referendum, we the public can hardly say we were hoodwinked by Ted Heath in to joining the common market and, giving away sovereignty! During Heath's reign we suffered power cuts, shortages of materials and 3 and 4 day working weeks. On the other hand, the Brexit vote will trigger a power grab by the conservatives, no doubt we will see more decriminalisation and dilution of workers rights. The unemployment figures massaged by zero hours contracts and the gig market. A downturn in our economy and stunted growth as predicted by the OBR. Last edited by rustymotor; 23rd November 2017 at 03:33..

23rd November 2017, 07:13	#159
AndyN01 This is my second home Toyota RAV4 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Tamworth Posts: 3,078 Thanks: 2,478 Thanked 1,579 Times in 968 Posts	I wonder how many other "policy" type documents reveal just how much information and likely scenarios we don't know..... but politicians do and are deliberately "hiding" from the public. I wonder what makes me so sceptical about politicians and their honesty and integrity.... Andy. __________________ Andy. http://www.midlandsnanomeets.co.uk/

22nd November 2017, 15:41	#152
Stevie25 Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Bangor, NI Posts: 369 Thanks: 356 Thanked 148 Times in 87 Posts	After today's Budget. #Brexit is already costing £3.7b. Let’s spend it on the NHS instead. Just saying!

22nd November 2017, 17:20	#155
SplendidChap Avid contributor Rover 75 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Northampton Posts: 156 Thanks: 9 Thanked 81 Times in 53 Posts	I thought the European combined military force was quite a good idea. Might have stopped us getting involved in Iraq. Might have avoided the farce of paying for aircraft carriers only to equip them with US owned and controlled planes. The USA is considering reducing its military in Europe while Russia seems bent on expansion. It's all very nice to sing rule Britannia and recall Nelson et al, but in the real modern world we can't afford to defend ourselves on our own. Two world wars demonstrated how much a free Europe needs America. Trump is quite right when he says Europe ought to spend more on defending itself, and sending us the bill for US forces plays very well at home. Or perhaps Putin can be trusted... We're still in NATO along with most of Europe. I don't see any of the Brexiters complaining about that pan European organisation.