You learn something everyday

92 squadron · 24th February 2012, 16:08

I recently reported a car that looked abandoned on the road outside my house. It had been there for a week and had a blown out tyre so these are the corresponding emails -----
From Community Police officer-

"Thanks for the report about the Red Nissan. It has been reported to us and I have notified ***** **** District Council enforcement officer. PNC shows a V23 has been submitted but unfortunately as it is taxed it can be parked on the road. **DC have the permissions to remove any untaxed vehicle from the highway.
Regards
I then replied-
Thanks for the reply. I have checked the vehicle on the MID web site. This checks if a vehicle is registered on the DVLA data base and is showing as "not recorded as being insured". Surely this is more of a reason for the vehicle to be removed from the highway?

And the Reply-
This only applies if it is being driven. The MIB isn’t definitive and at the moment it is unproved that it doesn’t have insurance. The vehicle is stationary and we would only have authorisation to remove it if it was seen being driven. As it has a V23 (scrap) submitted and isn’t in a dangerous condition (windows smashed, on bricks etc) then the council will not remove it until it is still taxed. We don’t remove abandoned vehicles and only have stolen ones recovered on the Owners approval (they claim back on the insurance, same as in a Road traffic Collision)
I appreciate your frustration and the only thing I have been able to do is attempt to contact the owner, which I am awaiting a reply.Regards

The strange thing about this is that you can legally park your vehicle on the public highway as long as it is taxed.

No mention of MOT!

You learn something everyday. The car is still there!!!!
Regards

Unclefista · 24th February 2012, 17:34

A car must be insured to be anywhere "publicly accessible", even if it's on private land, if it's accessible to the public it must be insured.
What I think the council are saying is that because the driver isn't there to prove he has insurance, they can't rely on the database to be infallible.
That's how I read it anyway

92 squadron · 25th February 2012, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclefista

A car must be insured to be anywhere "publicly accessible", even if it's on private land, if it's accessible to the public it must be insured.
What I think the council are saying is that because the driver isn't there to prove he has insurance, they can't rely on the database to be infallible.
That's how I read it anyway

These messages were from the local police force! They say a car CAN be on a public highway without insurance as long as it is not mobile and has a currant tax disc.

Dragrad · 25th February 2012, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92 squadron

These messages were from the local police force! They say a car CAN be on a public highway without insurance as long as it is not mobile and has a currant tax disc.

Insurance is only required if the vehicle is, mobile, being driven. After that any accident is the responsibilty of the driver's vehicle hitting it.

If the owner of the vehicle with no insurance has a static vehicle in a legally parked position, he is not liable..... However the local council may have their own bye-laws with regards to vehicle parking......

Further....With regards to the insurance aspect, it is primarily up to the owner to prove that the vehicle cannot be driven......

Unclefista · 25th February 2012, 01:29

I've always understood it to be the way I said, sorry if I've tried to misinform

I'd like to see it in black and white somewhere before I tried it though knowing my luck

An acquaintance of mine received a summons for having a donor car on the road waiting for the scrap man that wasn't insured, it was only by going to court and arguing it wasn't a vehicle (no engine, wheels or suspension) that he wasn't fined.
It was a few years ago now though.

What happens if the handbrake fails on an uninsured car and it hits another ?

deeks · 25th February 2012, 09:08

i used to leave my old saxo parked out on the road when i took it off the road for about 6 months while i rebuilt it, and are very nosey neighbour over the road constantly phoned council/police and all they do is come out and say weve had a call about a VEHICLE obstructing the highway,

but as we can see it is not as it is parked up safely, sorry to bother you sir but we have to come out when we are contacted, in the end i would just ignore the door,.

the car was taxed but no insurance or mot

HarryM1BYT · 25th February 2012, 09:20

To be on a public road, a vehicle has to be taxed, insured and (except in certain circumstances) MOT'ed.

I think the point the CPO was trying to make was that despite the above need to be insured, the MIB system database was not sufficiently reliable as to be certain there was no insurance on the car, there is also the possibility that the car, whilst insured was not actually specified on a policy. As there was some doubt about this, the safe option is to do nothing, at least until the tax expired.

92 squadron · 25th February 2012, 13:04

All very interesting. I am sure that if you get a PC who wants to make a case out of it he will as I am sure that there would be something in the DPP archives somewhere that there is a case to answer.
Thanks for the comments
Regards

alanT · 25th February 2012, 13:09

So how did you get the insurance details from the MID database without ticking the box that confirms you are the owner of the vehicle on which you are conducting a search, which obviously you are not?

92 squadron · 25th February 2012, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by alant

so how did you get the insurance details from the mid database without ticking the box that confirms you are the owner of the vehicle on which you are conducting a search, which obviously you are not?

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

24th February 2012, 16:08	#1
92 squadron Drink 92 SQUADRON BEER Jaguar X Type 2.2 SE Diesel estate Mem No789 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Hitchin Posts: 776 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	You learn something everyday I recently reported a car that looked abandoned on the road outside my house. It had been there for a week and had a blown out tyre so these are the corresponding emails ----- From Community Police officer- "Thanks for the report about the Red Nissan. It has been reported to us and I have notified *** District Council enforcement officer. PNC shows a V23 has been submitted but unfortunately as it is taxed it can be parked on the road. DC have the permissions to remove any untaxed vehicle from the highway. Regards I then replied- Thanks for the reply. I have checked the vehicle on the MID web site. This checks if a vehicle is registered on the DVLA data base and is showing as "not recorded as being insured". Surely this is more of a reason for the vehicle to be removed from the highway? And the Reply- This only applies if it is being driven. The MIB isn’t definitive and at the moment it is unproved that it doesn’t have insurance. The vehicle is stationary and we would only have authorisation to remove it if it was seen being driven. As it has a V23 (scrap) submitted and isn’t in a dangerous condition (windows smashed, on bricks etc) then the council will not remove it until it is still taxed. We don’t remove abandoned vehicles and only have stolen ones recovered on the Owners approval (they claim back on the insurance, same as in a Road traffic Collision) I appreciate your frustration and the only thing I have been able to do is attempt to contact the owner, which I am awaiting a reply.Regards The strange thing about this is that you can legally park your vehicle on the public highway as long as it is taxed. No mention of MOT! You learn something everyday. The car is still there!!!! Regards __________________ http://signatures.mylivesignature.co...C81D84B0AF.png

24th February 2012, 17:34	#2
Unclefista Posted a thing or two Rover 75 CDT Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Bradford Posts: 1,478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	A car must be insured to be anywhere "publicly accessible", even if it's on private land, if it's accessible to the public it must be insured. What I think the council are saying is that because the driver isn't there to prove he has insurance, they can't rely on the database to be infallible. That's how I read it anyway __________________ Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra. Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath. At night the ice-weasels come... http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5331/6...77671f80_n.jpg

25th February 2012, 01:29	#5
Unclefista Posted a thing or two Rover 75 CDT Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Bradford Posts: 1,478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	I've always understood it to be the way I said, sorry if I've tried to misinform I'd like to see it in black and white somewhere before I tried it though knowing my luck An acquaintance of mine received a summons for having a donor car on the road waiting for the scrap man that wasn't insured, it was only by going to court and arguing it wasn't a vehicle (no engine, wheels or suspension) that he wasn't fined. It was a few years ago now though. What happens if the handbrake fails on an uninsured car and it hits another ? __________________ Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra. Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath. At night the ice-weasels come... http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5331/6...77671f80_n.jpg Last edited by Unclefista; 25th February 2012 at 01:32..

25th February 2012, 09:20	#7
HarryM1BYT This is my second home 75 Contemporary SE Mk II 2004 Man. Sal. CDTi 135ps, FBH on red diesel, WinCE6 DD Join Date: May 2010 Location: Leeds Posts: 17,273 Thanks: 2,160 Thanked 2,061 Times in 1,586 Posts	To be on a public road, a vehicle has to be taxed, insured and (except in certain circumstances) MOT'ed. I think the point the CPO was trying to make was that despite the above need to be insured, the MIB system database was not sufficiently reliable as to be certain there was no insurance on the car, there is also the possibility that the car, whilst insured was not actually specified on a policy. As there was some doubt about this, the safe option is to do nothing, at least until the tax expired. __________________ Harry How To's and items I offer for free, or just to cover the cost of my expenses... http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...40#post1764540 Fix a poor handbrake; DIY ABS diagnostic unit; Loan of the spanner needed to change the CDT belts; free OBD diagnostics +MAF; Correct Bosch MAF cheap; DVB-T install in an ex-hi-line system; DD install with a HK amp; FBH servicing. I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

25th February 2012, 13:04	#8
92 squadron Drink 92 SQUADRON BEER Jaguar X Type 2.2 SE Diesel estate Mem No789 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Hitchin Posts: 776 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	You learn something everyday All very interesting. I am sure that if you get a PC who wants to make a case out of it he will as I am sure that there would be something in the DPP archives somewhere that there is a case to answer. Thanks for the comments Regards __________________ http://signatures.mylivesignature.co...C81D84B0AF.png

25th February 2012, 09:08	#6
deeks Posted a thing or two MG ZT 2.0 DIESEL Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Barwell Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 12 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts	i used to leave my old saxo parked out on the road when i took it off the road for about 6 months while i rebuilt it, and are very nosey neighbour over the road constantly phoned council/police and all they do is come out and say weve had a call about a VEHICLE obstructing the highway, but as we can see it is not as it is parked up safely, sorry to bother you sir but we have to come out when we are contacted, in the end i would just ignore the door,. the car was taxed but no insurance or mot

25th February 2012, 13:09	#9
alanT Banned Rover 75 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London Posts: 214 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So how did you get the insurance details from the MID database without ticking the box that confirms you are the owner of the vehicle on which you are conducting a search, which obviously you are not?