Be Wary - Virus Is Still There.

[Borg Warner]

Interesting read on the NHS FaceAche page with regards to the track and trace efforts. A good proportion of the contributors openly state that they believe their rights are being abused by the government as they attempt to control the spread of the virus. They are saying that this is nothing ti do with public health but control of us and wouldn't comply.

Goodness knows what they would have done if the government had imposed a hard lock down at the start and enforced by the police/army.

[planenut]

I did say a while ago, that the lifting of restrictions with the information now gleaned will give the Health Service and the Government the ability to control the ebb and flow of the virus, at a level that they could cope with. That is what the electronic "data bank" would do.

[wraymond]

Post 72


Too true Gary. It's generally held that mistakes were made from the start. And not necessarily only by our government. Germany is now undergoing the start of a second wave.

When virtually every minister is new to office, and occasionally don't even last a year in post, it perhaps shouldn't be forgotten that almost all of them had very little experience even of day-to-day government.

In no way excusable, it maybe gives an indication of the root of the problems now being faced. And, given suspicion of motives and/or expertise of those in power being so prevalent, there's no surprise that conspiracy theories abound. Not least by me! Track and Trace? Now seen as a huge and expensive waste of time and effort while the failed systems serve only to confirm the wildest fantasies about surveillance.

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by Spike

The hidden death toll from Covid is reflected in 'Excess Deaths' rather than deaths from Covid. This indicates the adjusted variance from the normal number of deaths in a given period in previous years. Colleagues from hospital specialties confirm that they're not seeing the usual number of people in for acute or chronic conditions. As you note, the number of traumas in EDs has been significantly down. In my area, average length of stay in an acute bed is down by three days - an absolutely unheard-of figure and admissions are at levels last seen a decade ago.

The number of trauma cases in EDs is rising but the excess deaths is at around 50% above the Covid figure. There have been around 42,500 deaths from Covid in the UK (the real figure is probably a bit higher, as there is discrepancy in early recording and reluctance by some to record respiratory deaths as 'Covid') but the excess deaths figure is pushing 70,000 for the same period. This is made up of people who would have otherwise sought medical help but have avoided hospitals at the peak of the pandemic: people with heart disease, lung disease, cancer, etc. Expect this figure to continue at an elevated level for some time as people who have cancer, in particular, die from not having sought care sooner.

I work predominantly with care homes and there have been some absolute horror stories. I was jumping up-and-down in April when the Govt refused to count these deaths in the 'official' statistics. They still only report the Covid figures but should always present these alongside the excess deaths for context.

We've planned for a second spike, which mercifully hasn't manifested itself yet, but nobody is relaxing yet. Everyone hopes that a hot summer will help too but it's not a medical treatment! What we need is a working vaccine - only then will things truly get back to normal.

Stay safe, Everyone.

What about the majority of those contracting Covid that ar either asymptomatic or display mild symptoms? worth closing the country down for? millions of young healthy adults who are destitute? schoolchildren missing out on six months of an academic year perhaps, or our children and their children paying for the financial black hole we have dug for ourselves, maybe sacrificing normal healthcare on the covid altar?........you said it yourself 70,000 excess deaths not attributable to covid.....

Now I've no idea what working in a "covid response team" entails, but if it's anything like having an entire hospital ward you are responsible for converted into a covid "hot zone" then by virtue of personal involvement by proxy then I'm fairly aware of what that entails.

The early cases of infection in this country were at least 51 days before the beginning of lockdown, and as such if the natural "R" value were to be believed, then the virus is already endemic in the population.

I've had firsthand experience of infection, as has my wife and daughter, and also have tested positive for antibodies.

I didn't fall down dead, I wasn't intubated for weeks on end, nor was the minutiae of my demise distastefully glorified on television.

How utterly disappointing to be told you have tested positive for the killer virus Covid-19 and to experience nothing worse than symptoms of a mild cold

The fact is, that will be the experience of the majority of people exposed to covid, and at some point people are going to realise that the "treatment, or prevention" is actually far more harmful than the effect of the virus.

I have every sympathy for families who have lost a loved one with covid, but no more than any other reason for a loved one passing away of other reasons.

This is an unpleasant virus, but the way it is being dealt with by those in authority is far more worrying, and the nonsense the media is serving up on a daily basis even more so.

We are social beings, and all that is being achieved of late is the conversion of normal people into frightened hermits.

Make no mistake James, life is not a rehearsal.........don't make the mistake of confusing quantity with quality

Brian

[Borg Warner]

Seems the lock downs implemented across the world don't seem to have worked:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-53174059

Hopefully we in the UK will see this and take note. We are going to have to learn to live with this and come up with some sensible, workable and acceptable solutions; which does not include shutting everything down. Otherwise we may well revert to the Dark Ages.

[Avulon]

Originally Posted by Spike

I'm wary of starting anything on this forum - had my fingers burned in the past. Probably time for me to take another couple of years' sabbatical from the OC...

B... [stop the press!]

Originally Posted by Spike

Over and out. See you in a couple of years’ time.

...ye bye. Protest by absence - proven to have absolutely no effect in many cases. As a flounce it wasn't very good. Get yer coat -

[Avulon]

Originally Posted by Borg Warner

Interesting read on the NHS FaceAche page with regards to the track and trace efforts. A good proportion of the contributors openly state that they believe their rights are being abused by the government as they attempt to control the spread of the virus. They are saying that this is nothing ti do with public health but control of us and wouldn't comply.

Goodness knows what they would have done if the government had imposed a hard lock down at the start and enforced by the police/army.

Well the Gov't in their undoubted wisdom, ignored the 2 biggest players in the mobile market and decided to go ahead with a system that they were told wouldn't, and couldn't work. One has to ask why they would try and re-invent a system that's already effective and works. In software like most engineering, we have a saying "don't re-invent the wheel" (just build on it). Alphabet (Google) and Apple co-designed a secure system that guarantees privacy (and so doesn't contravene GDPR) in a very short space of time. All the Govt had to do was put their own interface on it. A job that any number of firms in the UK could have done for less than 10% of what's been spent on a failure. Hell in the time they've had so far I'd have done it for 1% of what they've spent. (spending on the failed software was quoted at £12,000,000 !).



There are only 2 possible reasons, one is incompetence (not to be dismissed), the other is the opportunity to monitor not only peoples movements but connections with each other (also not to be dismissed lightly). I don't see anything wrong with erring on the side of caution when we live in such a controlling state as we do.

[Borg Warner]

Originally Posted by Avulon

Well the Gov't in their undoubted wisdom, ignored the 2 biggest players in the mobile market and decided to go ahead with a system that they were told wouldn't, and couldn't work. One has to ask why they would try and re-invent a system that's already effective and works. In software like most engineering, we have a saying "don't re-invent the wheel" (just build on it). Alphabet (Google) and Apple co-designed a secure system that guarantees privacy (and so doesn't contravene GDPR) in a very short space of time. All the Govt had to do was put their own interface on it. A job that any number of firms in the UK could have done for less than 10% of what's been spent on a failure. Hell in the time they've had so far I'd have done it for 1% of what they've spent. (spending on the failed software was quoted at £12,000,000 !).



There are only 2 possible reasons, one is incompetence (not to be dismissed), the other is the opportunity to monitor not only peoples movements but connections with each other (also not to be dismissed lightly). I don't see anything wrong with erring on the side of caution when we live in such a controlling state as we do.

Clearly a waste of time, effort and money. 67m people in the UK, wonder how many have a smart phone? Of those how many will download and use it. Would guess these morons wouldn't bother:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53176472

Neither would these idiots:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

Whenever mankind and nature go head-to-head there is usually only one winner. Much as it pains me to say we may have to let this rip.

I'd better spend that pension sooner rather than leave it to the dogs trust.

[Avulon]

Originally Posted by Borg Warner

Seems the lock downs implemented across the world don't seem to have worked:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-53174059

Hopefully we in the UK will see this and take note. We are going to have to learn to live with this and come up with some sensible, workable and acceptable solutions; which does not include shutting everything down. Otherwise we may well revert to the Dark Ages.

I think the page has moved on since you posted that link. I do agree that just shutting everything isn't the solution. Although between this and the Green lobby I think we probably are headed back to the Dark Ages. I think I'll invest in some practical easily refueled transport now...

Anyone selling a stables as a going concern? Preferably close to a major communications route, e.g. Dere street, Watling street etc..
Looks like horse trading is going to be quicker than recharging all the poisonous batteries.

[Avulon]

Originally Posted by Borg Warner

Clearly a waste of time, effort and money. 67m people in the UK, wonder how many have a smart phone? Of those how many will download and use it. Would guess these morons wouldn't bother:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53176472

Neither would these idiots:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...ost_type=share

Whenever mankind and nature go head-to-head there is usually only one winner. Much as it pains me to see we may have to let this rip.

I'd better spend that pension sooner rather than leave it to the dogs trust.

Well this moronic idiot won't be downloading anything from uk govt that tracks and traces movements either.