Driving in Europe - Any Advice to offer? - Page 4

Ross R75 · 21st August 2007, 23:58

Remember also that if you have an accident and there is snow on the road, you will not be covered by your insurance unless you have winter tyres or mud and snow (marked M&S) tyres fitted. I just moved back from Germany in April of this year.

In towns, cyclists and pedestrians have the right of way if you are turning right. Always look over your right shoulder to check for cyclists (there are millions of them) before turning right. In towns there is no fast or slow lane on dual carriageways although the left lane is generally the quicker moving of the two. You can turn right at red lights if there is a sign below the light with a green arrow on it. At night, they turn the traffic lights off to reduce CO2 output so you need to know if you have priority at junctions. There are priority signs at all junctions (a white diamond with black road diagram), they're easy to understand. The overall standard of driving in Germany is vastly superior to that in Britain. Fuel prices are about the same and service stations (called rastplatz or rasthof) are a million times better than ours and much cheaper. You'll be expected to tip the concierge in the toilets as they keep them spotlessly clean and don't get paid by the service station owners.

There are next to no roundabouts in Germany, all slip roads from Autobahns are in the form of an orbital ramp. Ensure that you get in the correct lane quickly at autobahn junctions, the slip roads can be very short. Contrary to popular belief, there is a speed limit of 130kph on Autobahns although the police will not stop you for breaking it. If you crash or cause an accident at more than 130kph you are automatically at fault. It is illegal to run out of fuel on Autobahns and you must carry a warning triangle. Spare bulbs are not compulsory, nor is a fuel can.

Nordrhein-Westfalen has great Christmas markets with Munster being my favourite.

carlpenn · 22nd August 2007, 07:03

Thank you Ross R75

A very informative post there.

Where in Germany had you been living?

Ross R75 · 22nd August 2007, 11:02

I was living in Munster. A beautiful old city with a population of about 400,000. Nice and hot in summer and freezing with plenty of snow in winter.

Volzhskyboy · 23rd August 2007, 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross R75

Remember also that if you have an accident and there is snow on the road, you will not be covered by your insurance unless you have winter tyres or mud and snow (marked M&S) tyres fitted.

Are you sure about this, I think that this would only apply if you had insured your car in Germany and not the UK.

Ross R75 · 23rd August 2007, 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volzhskyboy

Are you sure about this, I think that this would only apply if you had insured your car in Germany and not the UK.

Yes. Your insurance only covers you with the minimum cover required by the law of the country you're driving in. The law in Germany states that winter or m&s tyres are required when driving on snow covered roads.

carlpenn · 23rd August 2007, 07:40

Ross - Would I need the M + S Tyres then as I have basically ordered a full set recently of "All Weather" Tyres

and could do without the extra expense?

We are having problems getting a (Family) Room anywhere at the moment too

Rothenburg is almost Fully Booked - Though we havent tried any Local B & B's yet (Mainly because we haven't found any there !!)

I guess this is what happens when you make last minute decisions !! lol....

Volzhskyboy · 23rd August 2007, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross R75

Yes. Your insurance only covers you with the minimum cover required by the law of the country you're driving in. The law in Germany states that winter or m&s tyres are required when driving on snow covered roads.

This is not strictly true.

"There is no definite legal regulation for the use of winter tyres, and in the case of an accident it needs to be decided on a case by case basis (except of course in e.g. mountainous areas where road signs clearly state that winter tyres are mandatory). Otherwise, only if it can be proven that the accident would not have happened w/ winter tyres, a driver may be made liable for part of the damage, though typically not exceeding 20%."

Taken from,

http://www.autorecht24.de/Recht_Gese...terreifen.html

Translated version,

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.autorecht24.de/Recht_Gesetze/Ratgeber/Winterreifen/body_winterreifen.html&hl=en&langpair=de|en&tbb=1& ie=iso-8859-1

Ross R75 · 23rd August 2007, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlpenn

Ross - Would I need the M + S Tyres then as I have basically ordered a full set recently of "All Weather" Tyres

and could do without the extra expense?

We are having problems getting a (Family) Room anywhere at the moment too

Rothenburg is almost Fully Booked - Though we havent tried any Local B & B's yet (Mainly because we haven't found any there !!)

I guess this is what happens when you make last minute decisions !! lol....

Hehe, the Christmas markets attract a lot of visitors. All weather/all season tyres should be marked "M&S with silica" on the sidewalls and they are fine for winter use in Germany.

Quote:

Originally Posted by volzhskyboy

This is not strictly true.

"There is no definite legal regulation for the use of winter tyres, and in the case of an accident it needs to be decided on a case by case basis (except of course in e.g. mountainous areas where road signs clearly state that winter tyres are mandatory). Otherwise, only if it can be proven that the accident would not have happened w/ winter tyres, a driver may be made liable for part of the damage, though typically not exceeding 20%."

I think most of us could do without the hassle of debating the above in a foreign court. Personally I'd rather fit all season or winter tyres and not have to worry about it. You could debate this point all day and go over the various loopholes, its similar to the aftermarket HID debate. The only way to be absolutely sure is to fit winter or all season tyres. This is why I mentioned it.

Volzhskyboy · 23rd August 2007, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross R75

I think most of us could do without the hassle of debating the above in a foreign court. Personally I'd rather fit all season or winter tyres and not have to worry about it. You could debate this point all day and go over the various loopholes, its similar to the aftermarket HID debate. The only way to be absolutely sure is to fit winter or all season tyres. This is why I mentioned it.

I agree with the sentiment of your advice I was merely pointing out that if drivers wanted to they an visit Germany without having to fit winter tyres.

carlpenn · 23rd August 2007, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross R75

Hehe, the Christmas markets attract a lot of visitors. All weather/all season tyres should be marked "M&S with silica" on the sidewalls and they are fine for winter use in Germany.

I think most of us could do without the hassle of debating the above in a foreign court. Personally I'd rather fit all season or winter tyres and not have to worry about it. You could debate this point all day and go over the various loopholes, its similar to the aftermarket HID debate. The only way to be absolutely sure is to fit winter or all season tyres. This is why I mentioned it.

I know...........I accept that as a last minute decision, I would experience problems finding accommodation.

Glad the all Season tyres are ok - I dont see the point of having "Dry Weatehr" Tyres in the UK... !! lol ........

I am hoping that my Wife enjoys this trip a little more than she is showing at the moment - She doesnt like the Driving across Europe idea - Unlike me, I see it as an adventure !! lol.

Just got myself a 4 CD "Learn to speak German" pack ...... Try and at least show some level of intelligence ........ lol .......

21st August 2007, 23:58	#31
Ross R75 Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 137 Thanked 229 Times in 156 Posts	Remember also that if you have an accident and there is snow on the road, you will not be covered by your insurance unless you have winter tyres or mud and snow (marked M&S) tyres fitted. I just moved back from Germany in April of this year. In towns, cyclists and pedestrians have the right of way if you are turning right. Always look over your right shoulder to check for cyclists (there are millions of them) before turning right. In towns there is no fast or slow lane on dual carriageways although the left lane is generally the quicker moving of the two. You can turn right at red lights if there is a sign below the light with a green arrow on it. At night, they turn the traffic lights off to reduce CO2 output so you need to know if you have priority at junctions. There are priority signs at all junctions (a white diamond with black road diagram), they're easy to understand. The overall standard of driving in Germany is vastly superior to that in Britain. Fuel prices are about the same and service stations (called rastplatz or rasthof) are a million times better than ours and much cheaper. You'll be expected to tip the concierge in the toilets as they keep them spotlessly clean and don't get paid by the service station owners. There are next to no roundabouts in Germany, all slip roads from Autobahns are in the form of an orbital ramp. Ensure that you get in the correct lane quickly at autobahn junctions, the slip roads can be very short. Contrary to popular belief, there is a speed limit of 130kph on Autobahns although the police will not stop you for breaking it. If you crash or cause an accident at more than 130kph you are automatically at fault. It is illegal to run out of fuel on Autobahns and you must carry a warning triangle. Spare bulbs are not compulsory, nor is a fuel can. Nordrhein-Westfalen has great Christmas markets with Munster being my favourite. __________________ Copperleaf R75 CDT 160 Last edited by Ross R75; 22nd August 2007 at 00:03..

22nd August 2007, 07:03	#32
carlpenn This is my second home 2000 Wedgey Blue 2.5V6 Beauty Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bilston Posts: 4,486 Thanks: 36 Thanked 29 Times in 16 Posts	Thank you Ross R75 A very informative post there. Where in Germany had you been living? __________________ 2.5V6 Auto: Work carried out so far: Crankcase Breather Pipe replaced, O/S CV Joint replaced, Starter Motor Repair Kit Fitted, Front Suspension Overhauled.

22nd August 2007, 11:02	#33
Ross R75 Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 137 Thanked 229 Times in 156 Posts	I was living in Munster. A beautiful old city with a population of about 400,000. Nice and hot in summer and freezing with plenty of snow in winter. __________________ Copperleaf R75 CDT 160

23rd August 2007, 07:40	#36
carlpenn This is my second home 2000 Wedgey Blue 2.5V6 Beauty Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bilston Posts: 4,486 Thanks: 36 Thanked 29 Times in 16 Posts	Ross - Would I need the M + S Tyres then as I have basically ordered a full set recently of "All Weather" Tyres and could do without the extra expense? We are having problems getting a (Family) Room anywhere at the moment too Rothenburg is almost Fully Booked - Though we havent tried any Local B & B's yet (Mainly because we haven't found any there !!) I guess this is what happens when you make last minute decisions !! lol.... __________________ 2.5V6 Auto: Work carried out so far: Crankcase Breather Pipe replaced, O/S CV Joint replaced, Starter Motor Repair Kit Fitted, Front Suspension Overhauled.