Thermsotat leak - Page 4

Jules · 2nd February 2018, 12:25

They are not genuine !

The only genuine ones had BMW stamped on them.
We have a few left but reserved for our own workshop use.

I have a few spare proper used BMW housings which may become desirable where owners want to replace their leaky one while installing a top hose mod !!

EastPete · 2nd February 2018, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

They are not genuine !

The only genuine ones had BMW stamped on them.
We have a few left but reserved for our own workshop use.

I have a few spare proper used BMW housings which may become desirable where owners want to replace their leaky one while installing a top hose mod !!

Thanks Jules

It is difficult to know what is 'genuine' any more, but I hope my GB made stat will give good service- I'll try to keep folks updated.
Pete

bl52krz · 3rd February 2018, 20:58

I have followed this thread, and it seems that there are many and varied ways for exchanging, complimenting, call it what you will, the thermostat in our motors .one thing that grates with me is the term OEM original. If it can be proven that they are not ‘original’ nor ‘OEM’, could it be called FRAUD. If that was the case, could it not be put to trading standards for their investigative digestion. Just a thought. I was thinking of trying the Menizers? System but.........

Jules · 3rd February 2018, 21:46

There's so many sellers using the term OEM or OEM quality it has lost it's meaning.

I took FIRSTLINE to task years ago as they always had " OEM QUALITY" on their boxes.

A lot if their stuff comes from China and doesn't even last a year.

I notice these days that slogan has since disappeared from their boxes.

alanaslan · 3rd February 2018, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

The alloy housing is a far superior option as it allows full flow of coolant on a hot day motoring up a hill or towing etc.

There's a reason the engine pipework has an internal diameter of 32mm.

It is carefully worked out by engine manufacturers to offer full flow on full power.

The cheap Renault stat only has half the orifice size and half the flow rate of the original due to the fact it sits inside the hose (ok most of the time but NOT when engine going full pelt)

It really annoys me that the sellers of the Renault stat do not a warning with it stating the much reduced coolant flow due to it's size.

( I have asked one seller many times to put the warning on there but it falls on deaf ears as he only has his profit margins to think about rather than the end user!)

ie NOT SUITABLE FOR TOWING OR FOR USE IN HOT AMBIENT TEMPS etc

My Tourer pulled the Caravan 1.5 tonne across France last year when the air temp was off the scale it has the Renault stat in it and I had no problems.
Please to remember that our engines are a cut down inline 6 hence the need for the oversized coolant lines and the reason the engine runs cold.. also pulled all over the Peak District never had an overheating problem.
As I recall the rover stat operates on a 90 degree bend. My old memory says it is about a 30% reduction in flow for that. The bore size is not just about flow it is about heat transfer. The flow is dictated by the capacity of the water pump under pressure. As our cars have pressurised water systems.
PS: you want to workout the overall size of a new Radiator matrix. I can assure you the total area is much less than the size you quote.
So the up shot is the reduced size of the Renault Stat makes no difference to the flow overall.
To simply quote a bore size is less than 5% of the story. To condemn a smaller diameter stat only shows a lack of knowledge of the hydrodynamics of a pressurised cooling system.
PPS: what makes you think BMW know what they are doing. Imagine making an engine with either 4 or 6 cylinders take your pick, then stick in a range of vehicles from cars to small trucks all with different radiator sizes and capacities. Then what wetting agent are you using in the coolant. I will stop there I have made the point.
You can work your diesel Rover happily on its full power output set at 160 Bhp with the Renault stat In the top hose and have no worries regarding cooling.
Alan

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

clf · 3rd February 2018, 23:26

I would have thought a reduced coolant flow would have been good for the diesel because of its relatively cool running temp. (that is as long as its coolant capacity didnt change of course).

As far as BMW 'knowing' or 'not knowing' what they were doing. Whilst I agree that they DO know (and very definitely confirm I do not lol), the M47 engine was designed for a longitudinal mounting, its fitment in our cars would have surely have been a compromise? And it makes me wonder then, if the fitment position has any bearing on their failure. I cannot see how, but there does not seem to be much discussions online about early opening on the longitudinal versions

I have also wondered if the failure of the thermostats is as common on the BMW fitted engines as it is in ours (and seemingly Freelanders). I did a quick look (very quick, as I no longer have the desire to read about BMW and decipher the various potential country specs affecting the issue). It seems whilst they do have some issues, there seems to be discussions on the culprit being the EGR thermostat being the cause. Their coolant system incorporates an EGR stat, which can open earlier than is expected, allowing a small amount of coolant to pass into the system. Some of ours have a water jacket, though no stat(?) . In a similar way, I imagine, that the a non water tight bowl of an R5 stat lets coolant by. This of course as we know is enough to render the 'mod/bodge' pointless. It seems the BMW fitted stat would get replaced, but their problem remains until the EGR stat is replaced also. Ultimately the general consensus being to replace both at the same time.

Whichever stat is to be fitted, I would strongly recommend testing it in a pot of water with a thermometer before going to the trouble of fitting. (likewise testing the water tightness of an R5 stat bowl too)

Daveluck · 28th February 2018, 16:14

So I've chickened out and purchased another in line stat to replace my pee poor valeo Renault 5 thermostat. My cheaply Chinese replacement stat will remain in its box.

I got a wahler 3029.89 and it is a thing of beauty. The cup of the thermostat is one piece so no joins for water to leak past. The sprung loaded valve is completely water tight and on testing found the thermostat starts to open at about 86°c / 87°c and is fully open at the prescribed 89° ( or as close as I could measure )

2nd February 2018, 12:25	#31
Jules This is my second home ZT 260 SE Twilight and 10 other 75 ZT's :O Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Conwy NORTH WALES Posts: 11,094 Thanks: 512 Thanked 1,116 Times in 763 Posts	They are not genuine ! The only genuine ones had BMW stamped on them. We have a few left but reserved for our own workshop use. I have a few spare proper used BMW housings which may become desirable where owners want to replace their leaky one while installing a top hose mod !! __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Newbies do now!! 1. Plenum drains..all 3 or 4 year dependent 2. Cooling fan..All speeds functioning 3. Bonnet cable divider block

3rd February 2018, 20:58	#33
bl52krz This is my second home Rover 75 cdt club + Rover 2.5 KV6 Conni SE Join Date: May 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 11,447 Thanks: 6,587 Thanked 2,262 Times in 1,729 Posts	I have followed this thread, and it seems that there are many and varied ways for exchanging, complimenting, call it what you will, the thermostat in our motors .one thing that grates with me is the term OEM original. If it can be proven that they are not ‘original’ nor ‘OEM’, could it be called FRAUD. If that was the case, could it not be put to trading standards for their investigative digestion. Just a thought. I was thinking of trying the Menizers? System but......... __________________ Great Barr, Birmingham. Last edited by bl52krz; 3rd February 2018 at 21:00..

3rd February 2018, 21:46	#34
Jules This is my second home ZT 260 SE Twilight and 10 other 75 ZT's :O Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Conwy NORTH WALES Posts: 11,094 Thanks: 512 Thanked 1,116 Times in 763 Posts	There's so many sellers using the term OEM or OEM quality it has lost it's meaning. I took FIRSTLINE to task years ago as they always had " OEM QUALITY" on their boxes. A lot if their stuff comes from China and doesn't even last a year. I notice these days that slogan has since disappeared from their boxes. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Newbies do now!! 1. Plenum drains..all 3 or 4 year dependent 2. Cooling fan..All speeds functioning 3. Bonnet cable divider block

3rd February 2018, 23:26	#36
clf This is my second home MG ZT CDTi Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: carrick Posts: 7,859 Thanks: 3,494 Thanked 2,657 Times in 1,973 Posts	I would have thought a reduced coolant flow would have been good for the diesel because of its relatively cool running temp. (that is as long as its coolant capacity didnt change of course). As far as BMW 'knowing' or 'not knowing' what they were doing. Whilst I agree that they DO know (and very definitely confirm I do not lol), the M47 engine was designed for a longitudinal mounting, its fitment in our cars would have surely have been a compromise? And it makes me wonder then, if the fitment position has any bearing on their failure. I cannot see how, but there does not seem to be much discussions online about early opening on the longitudinal versions I have also wondered if the failure of the thermostats is as common on the BMW fitted engines as it is in ours (and seemingly Freelanders). I did a quick look (very quick, as I no longer have the desire to read about BMW and decipher the various potential country specs affecting the issue). It seems whilst they do have some issues, there seems to be discussions on the culprit being the EGR thermostat being the cause. Their coolant system incorporates an EGR stat, which can open earlier than is expected, allowing a small amount of coolant to pass into the system. Some of ours have a water jacket, though no stat(?) . In a similar way, I imagine, that the a non water tight bowl of an R5 stat lets coolant by. This of course as we know is enough to render the 'mod/bodge' pointless. It seems the BMW fitted stat would get replaced, but their problem remains until the EGR stat is replaced also. Ultimately the general consensus being to replace both at the same time. Whichever stat is to be fitted, I would strongly recommend testing it in a pot of water with a thermometer before going to the trouble of fitting. (likewise testing the water tightness of an R5 stat bowl too) __________________ It is not gloss primer .............. it is duct tape silver!

28th February 2018, 16:14	#37
Daveluck Gets stuck in 75 saloon 2.0 diesel Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Panton, lugo, Galicia Posts: 945 Thanks: 236 Thanked 192 Times in 143 Posts	So I've chickened out and purchased another in line stat to replace my pee poor valeo Renault 5 thermostat. My cheaply Chinese replacement stat will remain in its box. I got a wahler 3029.89 and it is a thing of beauty. The cup of the thermostat is one piece so no joins for water to leak past. The sprung loaded valve is completely water tight and on testing found the thermostat starts to open at about 86°c / 87°c and is fully open at the prescribed 89° ( or as close as I could measure )