K Seal - does it work? - Page 3

brownie21 · 7th April 2009, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratdogfink

Hi 1.8T connie. Is the HG gone or just a leak? No sealant will replace a head gasket! I tried for ages to find my leak. It was the T pice. When hot it did not leak. Unless you have the T pice changed you risk overheating due to the leak. It always looked like rad or top hose. The T pice craks for a pass time and this is the source of all leaking in the 1.8. Its just the same as any other car so check the same places for leaks. Then wrap the T pice in kitchen towel and keep checking it. You'll find the leak.

I definitely have a leak I'm sure. I had the MLS gasket fitted last year and I'm sure it is still OK as no other symptoms and car runs great. There is sometimes a very small puddle under the car on a morning but cannot for the life in me find where the leak is as it won't show up (even when pressure tested). I have fitted a new expansion cap and no change. Want to try K seal as an option. Maybe I'm overfilling it but it always seems to settle just below the minimum mark and I don't like that. No...do I not like that. I have some past receipts from work done before I bought it and on one diagnosis it said as advisory 'water pump leaking'. There is no follow up receipt to say the work was done so it could be that I suppose. Losing around quarter a pint per week from top up.

adam1978 · 7th April 2009, 21:27

metal water pipes can corrode inside out!! not allways visible

pab · 7th April 2009, 21:31

go round the engine with a torch,and look for red staining or wet areas,place a piece of cardboard under the car as it is cooling and try to find the suspect area.check the inlet manifold at the back of the engine.if you over fill the tank it will blow it out..do not recourse to sealant in these engines..of any kind

brownie21 · 12th April 2009, 11:24

Think I have found the problem. When car is started from cold there is a leak down near the bottom pulley at the left hand side. I believe this is where the water pump is situated. After about 5 minutes the leak stops as the engine warms up. It doesn't leak again then until starting from cold the next day. Had anyone else had these symptoms?

Ratdogfink · 12th April 2009, 15:45

No, not me. Did you wrap the T pice in kitchen towle for a few days to see if it is this? I just fitted a Gerry Tee and had a new plastic T pice on the car for three weeks. If the T is leaking you should get one off Gerry, get one anyway.

kaiser · 12th April 2009, 15:46

I think we must differentiate between two types of leak.
1. One is a radiator leak, where there is a constant pressure from inside the water to the outside. This requires one type of product like Radweld.
2. The other type is an internal leak, either via a crack, a loose liner or a headgasket.

The first type of problem requires the addition to the cooling water of small particles that will clog and in this way block a leak to the outside. I have seen this work perfectly with no ill effect.
The second problem can involve variable pressure across the crack, if involving the headgasket, and it can obviously be much more difficult to seal. However it could be a liner, where the leak past is small, and the pressure gradient one directional, in other words, water is forced into the oil, but not the other way around. In these cases there is good reason to believe that a product like K-seal or Wondarweld, might permanently do the trick. Most of these products are based on water glass (sodium silicate), which will form a hard body which is machinable where it comes into contact with high temperatures, and thus seal a crack in these areas.

If there has been no overheating, and it the water loss is inside the engine ( moisture under the oil filler cap) I would give it a try.

I have heard from many sources, people who race cars or deal with them every day, that it will in some cases work, permanently, and I really can't see what you have to loose. There are numerous cases where the use of sodium silicate has been reported successful.
(If, it is indeed the water pump, it will obviously not work!!):lol:

And, generally, there is a tendency for many people to give their strong opinions without qualifying why they say what they do. In many cases one can suspect that they don't know what they are talking about, but instinctively would like to take the correct technical approach.
It would be helpful if people would explain themselves so you could form an opinion based on advice which is worth listening to.

patrolman pete · 12th April 2009, 21:39

K seal is the only coolant sealer that the AA will use . We needed to find a sealer that didn't block up the narrow waterways found on modern engines . I remember a memo that came out telling us to not use any other sealers on the Honda V6 engine and to recover these cars rather than risk damage . K seal was later bought in so we could use it on any engine without risk .

adam1978 · 12th April 2009, 22:21

enough said !!!

brownie21 · 12th April 2009, 22:37

Thanks for all the input on this. I had a good nosey around under the car this morning and I'm 90% sure the water pump is the source of the leak as it drips from a cold start under the bottom pulley (doesn't leak once warmed up). Can get one off ebay for around 20 quid. Is it difficult to replace? Perhaps if there are any of you experts near the Huddersfield area you could do the job for me - for a fee of course.

kaiser · 13th April 2009, 03:36

The water pumps do indeed leak and need to be replaced, often at about 100000km. The seal is the problem, the rest is fine.
I would say that replacing the pump is involved, rather than difficult. You need to jack the RHS remove the undertray and the RHS inner wing guard, support the engine, remove the RHS engine mounting, remove the plastic belt covers, loosen the pulley (can be tight, very tight) lock the cams in position, remove the belt, replace the pump and reverse the operation.
Not too difficult, but it will take some time.
You might as well replace the belt.

7th April 2009, 21:27	#22
adam1978 Avid contributor MG ZT+ 190 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: March Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	metal water pipes can corrode inside out!! not allways visible __________________ Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly!!

12th April 2009, 11:24	#24
brownie21 Gets stuck in Rover 75 Saloon 1.8T Club SE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 521 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Think I have found the problem. When car is started from cold there is a leak down near the bottom pulley at the left hand side. I believe this is where the water pump is situated. After about 5 minutes the leak stops as the engine warms up. It doesn't leak again then until starting from cold the next day. Had anyone else had these symptoms? __________________ Wayne [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] We all have mental problems, it's just that some of us choose to show them.

12th April 2009, 22:21	#28
adam1978 Avid contributor MG ZT+ 190 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: March Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	enough said !!! __________________ Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly!!

12th April 2009, 22:37	#29
brownie21 Gets stuck in Rover 75 Saloon 1.8T Club SE Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 521 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for all the input on this. I had a good nosey around under the car this morning and I'm 90% sure the water pump is the source of the leak as it drips from a cold start under the bottom pulley (doesn't leak once warmed up). Can get one off ebay for around 20 quid. Is it difficult to replace? Perhaps if there are any of you experts near the Huddersfield area you could do the job for me - for a fee of course. __________________ Wayne [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] We all have mental problems, it's just that some of us choose to show them.

7th April 2009, 21:31	#23
pab Banned MG ZT V6 190+ Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Leeds Posts: 33,223 Thanks: 41 Thanked 1,614 Times in 1,416 Posts	go round the engine with a torch,and look for red staining or wet areas,place a piece of cardboard under the car as it is cooling and try to find the suspect area.check the inlet manifold at the back of the engine.if you over fill the tank it will blow it out..do not recourse to sealant in these engines..of any kind

12th April 2009, 15:45	#25
Ratdogfink Loves to post 1 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: 1 Posts: 336 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No, not me. Did you wrap the T pice in kitchen towle for a few days to see if it is this? I just fitted a Gerry Tee and had a new plastic T pice on the car for three weeks. If the T is leaking you should get one off Gerry, get one anyway.

12th April 2009, 15:46	#26
kaiser This is my second home 75 Tourer 2.5 Auto, 1.8T, 75V8ZT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Johannesburg ZA Posts: 6,200 Thanks: 1 Thanked 859 Times in 613 Posts	I think we must differentiate between two types of leak. 1. One is a radiator leak, where there is a constant pressure from inside the water to the outside. This requires one type of product like Radweld. 2. The other type is an internal leak, either via a crack, a loose liner or a headgasket. The first type of problem requires the addition to the cooling water of small particles that will clog and in this way block a leak to the outside. I have seen this work perfectly with no ill effect. The second problem can involve variable pressure across the crack, if involving the headgasket, and it can obviously be much more difficult to seal. However it could be a liner, where the leak past is small, and the pressure gradient one directional, in other words, water is forced into the oil, but not the other way around. In these cases there is good reason to believe that a product like K-seal or Wondarweld, might permanently do the trick. Most of these products are based on water glass (sodium silicate), which will form a hard body which is machinable where it comes into contact with high temperatures, and thus seal a crack in these areas. If there has been no overheating, and it the water loss is inside the engine ( moisture under the oil filler cap) I would give it a try. I have heard from many sources, people who race cars or deal with them every day, that it will in some cases work, permanently, and I really can't see what you have to loose. There are numerous cases where the use of sodium silicate has been reported successful. (If, it is indeed the water pump, it will obviously not work!!):lol: And, generally, there is a tendency for many people to give their strong opinions without qualifying why they say what they do. In many cases one can suspect that they don't know what they are talking about, but instinctively would like to take the correct technical approach. It would be helpful if people would explain themselves so you could form an opinion based on advice which is worth listening to.

12th April 2009, 21:39	#27
patrolman pete Posted a thing or two Rover 75 club se tourer CDT and a Connoisseur SE Diesel Auto Saloon Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Houghton - le - Spring Posts: 1,438 Thanks: 618 Thanked 333 Times in 197 Posts	K seal is the only coolant sealer that the AA will use . We needed to find a sealer that didn't block up the narrow waterways found on modern engines . I remember a memo that came out telling us to not use any other sealers on the Honda V6 engine and to recover these cars rather than risk damage . K seal was later bought in so we could use it on any engine without risk .

13th April 2009, 03:36	#30
kaiser This is my second home 75 Tourer 2.5 Auto, 1.8T, 75V8ZT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Johannesburg ZA Posts: 6,200 Thanks: 1 Thanked 859 Times in 613 Posts	The water pumps do indeed leak and need to be replaced, often at about 100000km. The seal is the problem, the rest is fine. I would say that replacing the pump is involved, rather than difficult. You need to jack the RHS remove the undertray and the RHS inner wing guard, support the engine, remove the RHS engine mounting, remove the plastic belt covers, loosen the pulley (can be tight, very tight) lock the cams in position, remove the belt, replace the pump and reverse the operation. Not too difficult, but it will take some time. You might as well replace the belt.