Car Insurance renewal

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by wraymond

How many of us have so-called ‘fully comprehensive’ cover? We see value in the care and maintenance we have lavished on a car over the years but insurers see it as a dinosaur worth a pittance and will only pay on a ‘residual value’ following a serious accident. Even on cover of 3PF&T a car will only be valued at its market value which is significantly lower than what an enthusiast would want. A more realistic policy would be 3rd party only.

In this context "residual value" and "market value" mean trade-in value not retail selling price or what the owner thinks it is worth. Paying for fully comprehensive cover is the key to having it written off as the slightest damage will exceed the trade-in value. As wraymond implies, TP cover protects you if the damage is the other driver's fault. If you are the guilty party, at least you retain ownership and total control over the necessary repairs.

Simon

[VVC-Geeza]

Originally Posted by wraymond

Does anybody know anyone who has had an 'agreed value' on their 75 at the inception of their policy?

I'm currently in the process of getting 'classic quotes' for my 200 coupe Ray and without exception all have offered the chance of an agreed value subject to acceptable pictures.Therefore I would suggest putting your 75/ZT on a classic policy as soon as possible if you want an agreed value.I've heard on good uathority the qualifying age for a classic is 20 years but needs to be confirmed.

Just remembered that I believe most classic policies require agreed limited mileage so probably not suitable for those used as a daily unless it's very low.

[wraymond]

And...further. Just a bit.

‘Our cars’ are more precious to us than mere cars/modes of transport. We spend lots on maintenance and service, care and even ‘identity’. We take great care and expense to maintain them, greater than the average non-committed car owner.

On the other hand, the rest of the world takes a lesser view. Why on Earth should we kid ourselves that pride of ownership takes precedence over value? The cold hard world does not share our values, hence the reluctance by the insurance business to accept a reasonable replacement cost.

Consequentially, with insurance being such a major cost these days, and with associated downsides as above, the only relevance in truth is the legality requirement. 3Party only.

Having been in the insurance industry, selling it and everything else including claim management, the term ‘comprehensive’ is misleading to say the least. Convenient, that.

[Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by wraymond

And...further. Just a bit.

‘Our cars’ are more precious to us than mere cars/modes of transport. We spend lots on maintenance and service, care and even ‘identity’. We take great care and expense to maintain them, greater than the average non-committed car owner.

On the other hand, the rest of the world takes a lesser view. Why on Earth should we kid ourselves that pride of ownership takes precedence over value? The cold hard world does not share our values, hence the reluctance by the insurance business to accept a reasonable replacement cost.

Consequentially, with insurance being such a major cost these days, and with associated downsides as above, the only relevance in truth is the legality requirement. 3Party only.

Having been in the insurance industry, selling it and everything else including claim management, the term ‘comprehensive’ is misleading to say the least. Convenient, that.

Hi Ray, remember the S reg Rover 75 I had, I was offered £5000 at the Pride of Longbridge National meet in 2014. Looking back I should have accepted the offer. At the time the car was insured by Adrian Flux under a Classic Car policy in the event of a write off, with an agreed valuation and a restricted annual mileage of 5000 miles per year. I had to submit to Adrian Flux 7 photographs including one showing the mileage via the odometer.

Thank you for your insights and vast experience.

[wraymond]

Thanks Phil. Yes, I remember that car! I would not have taken the money either, some things are beyond banality. Although of course, with a finance hat on, some things are beyond price and cost. Unfortunately, insurers are not on the same page as the rest of us. But then, at least in my view, the likelihood of someone damaging my car is remote to say the least.

That is until last week. Bumper scratches down one side while parked in the hospital car park. If I had caught him, the location would have been critically needed.

I'll have it done privately without claiming. At least my maximum NCD will be safe. That's more than the associated insurance renewal hike next year.
Keep well!

[YHT]

When the kids were young the cars they used were my property and they were on my insurance; lot less cost that their own insurance.
Has the time come for us to transfer our cars to the kids and get us as additional drivers on their Insurance???

[wraymond]

Good idea! Sadly, they are wise to it! It was rumbled some time ago (almost pre-online) when a minion smelled a rat wrapped up in a promise.

A trade-wide realisation dawned and internal surveys showed percentages were somewhat distorted. These days, or at least from about 15/20 years ago, an unaccounted-for blip caused raised eyebrows and, lo, underwriters got bigger bonuses. Not that I'm prejudiced though.

In the industry, volumes dictate. The millions of cars easily make up for any change or limitation of benefits. A bandwagon of usurers.

The problems come from a widespread misunderstanding of the legal meanings of prospective policy conditions. Briefly, Comprehensive isn't, it is only partial and then with a double entendre in the term. The rest is if/buts/maybes.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by YHT

When the kids were young the cars they used were my property and they were on my insurance; lot less cost that their own insurance.
Has the time come for us to transfer our cars to the kids and get us as additional drivers on their Insurance???

Then, at the time of a claim you would discover that your car did not have insurance. This is because the policy holder has to declare who will be the main driver and the insurance premium is based on the main driver's risk profile. If you take out a policy in a youngster's name withought declaring that an 89 year young is the main driver, the concept is known as fraud which voids the policy.

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by MSS

Then, at the time of a claim you would discover that your car did not have insurance. This is because the policy holder has to declare who will be the main driver and the insurance premium is based on the main driver's risk profile. If you take out a policy in a youngster's name withought declaring that an 89 year young is the main driver, the concept is known as fraud which voids the policy.

What YHT has questioned does not necessarily constitute a fraud. YHT’s words were:
Has the time come for us to transfer our cars to the kids and get us as additional drivers on their Insurance???
To take, as written, there is nothing wrong with the proposal if the younger completed the proposal, named any additional driver with details of age/experience and signed their own name. At inception there is neither expectation nor statement concerning guarantee or expectation of ‘main driver’ status (generally). In YHT’s post there is no indication of anything approaching fraud. I would expect, supposedly with the same insurer, that all details would be checkable anyway.

Good idea YHT, why not do us all a favour and try it. Just a quote would serve the purpose. Make sure you give your current details, and ask the same insurer, in full.

If a fraud were discovered or suspected, your own, and the third party’s, damage would be an invalid claim.
In this case, prosecution might well not be a consequence.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by wraymond

What YHT has questioned does not necessarily constitute a fraud. YHT’s words were:

That is correct, but my response was correct also. Please note that what I wrote was as follows:

Originally Posted by MSS

...If you take out a policy in a youngster's name withought declaring that an 89 year young is the main driver, the concept is known as fraud which voids the policy.

Originally Posted by wraymond

...........At inception there is neither expectation nor statement concerning guarantee or expectation of ‘main driver’ status (generally).........

In my experience there is. Both the camparison sites that I use specically ask the user to select the "main driver" when there are one or more named drivers in addition to the policy holder. I suggest you try changing the "main driver" setting without changing the policy holder. You will discover that the quoted premium changes. This information will be considered as material to the quoted premium.

Originally Posted by wraymond

.........

To take, as written, there is nothing wrong with the proposal if the younger completed the proposal, named any additional driver with details

If a fraud were discovered or suspected, your own, and the third party’s, damage would be an invalid claim.
In this case, prosecution might well not be a consequence.

I did not say prosecution would be a consequence. But, a likely consequence is that the use of a "fraudulent statement" to obtain cover would be placed on the youngster's insurance record which would make it harder and more costly for him/her to obtain insurance cover in the future. The insurer would most likely refuse the insured's claim but as a legal requirement settle the third party claim. Then, if financially justified, the insurer may take legal action against the policy holder to recover their costs of settling the third party claim. Imagine if the third party's claim was substantial due to serious injury or death. It could bankrupt the insured.

I hope you will not mind me saying this, but I get the feeling that most of your statements in relation to motor insurance are based on experience from the pre-computer age where brokers used paper based "premium manuals" to provide a quote. I remember those processes from when I was a slip of a lad getting my first motorcycle insurance quotes by visiting the brokers' offices.