Dead Alternator and dead Master cylinder wanted - Page 2

Departed · 19th February 2009, 18:53

OK a couple of pictures of the master cyl piston.

First view shows the whole piston. The rubber seal is removed and shown at the top of the picture. It fits in the groove on the piston, to the right.

However this is the low pressure seal that stops the fluid escaping down the pedal shaft.

The main pressure seal is the grey plastic part on the left. Heres a closer view:

I removed the rubber seal to prove a point: the cylinder still pumnps with the rubber seal removed so the grey one to the left is the main seal.

Further to that, under the white cap on the very end, is a one way valve. This seals as the pedal is pressed, but opens when released to allow fluid to be drawn into the cylinder via a hole between the main seal and the shaft seal.

I actually suspect many of the master cylinder problems are caused by the grey muck that appears in the master. I'm not sure if this is wear material from the grey seal, or from the cylinder bore, or something else. Experiences of others where bleeding the system helps would tend to back this up, as the muck is temporarily washed away from stopping this valve closing.

Jamie, you're welcome to have my cyl to investigate. I've cut off the pipe, but kept the other bits. Could meet you somewhere to exchange if you want.

workaholic_ro · 19th February 2009, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowedb

OK a couple of pictures of the master cyl piston.

Great pics and great description, thank you.
Nothing new and nothing abnormal about the seal assembly. The use of a primary seal and a secondary seal is the typical arrangement in hydraulics. Sometimes a third seal is included, a wiper. Judging by the pics, the primary seal is a compact one and the secondary is a "U" type. The white cap seems to be the piston guide and if it's not this is a bad design. There are a lot of shapes made of various materials, polyurethane being the most popular. I'm almost sure that a large manufacturer like Simrit have more than one alternative to those from the pics. Can you measure the groves diameters, the internal cylinder diameter and the grooves length to help me source a replacement ?
Another question is if the shoulder from the front of the primary seal can be removed. Most of the hydraulic seals can't be streched too much therefore not any seal can be fitted anywhere even if the dimensions are correct.
Even one more question: the secondary seal seems to be larger in diameter compared to the primary one; is the cylinder composed (inside) of two parts with different diameters ?

Edited: answered myself to the last one. Just seen a photo of the whole "thing"

Departed · 20th February 2009, 18:17

As you saw from the photo, the cylinder is stepped.

I've taken the piston apart. Hadn't realised how much it came apart until I tried. I knew the white cap came off with the non return valve underneath, but didn't realise there were two parts either side of the mains seal, and that the main seal is actually in two parts:

You can see below in the centre: the seal is a flexible grey plastic, with a rubber insert that sits inside it to give the fit in the cylinder. Main part of piston is far right, and to the left of the two part seal is the part that holds the seal in place, and contains the non return valve under the cap.

Will get the vernier out over the weekend and do some measuring. Jamie, you are still welcome to the bits if you want them: will reassemble to prevent bits getting lost.

Jamie · 21st February 2009, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowedb

Jamie, you're welcome to have my cyl to investigate. I've cut off the pipe, but kept the other bits. Could meet you somewhere to exchange if you want.

Thanks, PM Sent.

Anyone help with an Alternator....Im hopoing this will be of benfit to everyone as Im hoping to source DIY service kits.

Dud alternator anyone??

Phil · 21st February 2009, 22:51

Jamie, do you want the master cyl posted complete with pipe attached? Or shall I cut it off? It is rigid plastic.

Jamie · 22nd February 2009, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

Jamie, do you want the master cyl posted complete with pipe attached? Or shall I cut it off? It is rigid plastic.

With it attached if thats possible please phil, Is it from a diesel or petrol model?

Cheers.

jamie

Phil · 22nd February 2009, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie

With it attached if thats possible please phil, Is it from a diesel or petrol model?

Cheers.

jamie

Petrol, 1.8turbo.

Jamie · 23rd February 2009, 14:56

Smashing...thanks Phil.

Marconi · 28th March 2009, 20:38

I have a KV6/2.0L/auto/2000 which draws 0.4 A with everything shut down.
Obviously this drains the battery overnight.

The alternator also runs very hot to the touch and only oputs out 5A, so I'm thinking a Diode in the stack has gone.

Are they easy to change?
Can you get an alternator service pack?
Make/Model?

ooooh it never ends.

Marconi · 28th March 2009, 22:23

Also on another thread...
Found this, from the forum links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Wl0...eature=related

Is it really this easy on a KV6?

Can you get service kits for alternators, or is it a new one, possibly SMC on evilbay?
Mine heats quite a bit in use, even though only charging a recently flat battery at 5A, suggesting a diode pack gone.

I check the drain with the engine off again, for a few minutes, doors locked and bonnet switch held down..it was 400mA but perhaps I didn't give it long enough...
Thinking it may be draining into the alternator.

21st February 2009, 22:51	#15
Phil This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Connoisseur SE Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 12,227 Thanks: 469 Thanked 523 Times in 241 Posts	Jamie, do you want the master cyl posted complete with pipe attached? Or shall I cut it off? It is rigid plastic. __________________

23rd February 2009, 14:56	#18
Jamie Posted a thing or two In Limbo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cheshire Posts: 1,685 Thanks: 4 Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts	Smashing...thanks Phil. __________________ Finally given up trying to buy the last new rover V8 from Bristol, 2 years of haggling got me nowhere!

28th March 2009, 20:38	#19
Marconi Avid contributor R75 Club SE 2.0KV6 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Shotts Posts: 110 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have a KV6/2.0L/auto/2000 which draws 0.4 A with everything shut down. Obviously this drains the battery overnight. The alternator also runs very hot to the touch and only oputs out 5A, so I'm thinking a Diode in the stack has gone. Are they easy to change? Can you get an alternator service pack? Make/Model? ooooh it never ends. __________________ W Reg R75 Club SE KV6 2.0

28th March 2009, 22:23	#20
Marconi Avid contributor R75 Club SE 2.0KV6 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Shotts Posts: 110 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Also on another thread... Found this, from the forum links. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Wl0...eature=related Is it really this easy on a KV6? Can you get service kits for alternators, or is it a new one, possibly SMC on evilbay? Mine heats quite a bit in use, even though only charging a recently flat battery at 5A, suggesting a diode pack gone. I check the drain with the engine off again, for a few minutes, doors locked and bonnet switch held down..it was 400mA but perhaps I didn't give it long enough... Thinking it may be draining into the alternator. __________________ W Reg R75 Club SE KV6 2.0

19th February 2009, 18:53	#11
Departed Retired -- Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: -- Posts: 3,785 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	OK a couple of pictures of the master cyl piston. First view shows the whole piston. The rubber seal is removed and shown at the top of the picture. It fits in the groove on the piston, to the right. However this is the low pressure seal that stops the fluid escaping down the pedal shaft. The main pressure seal is the grey plastic part on the left. Heres a closer view: I removed the rubber seal to prove a point: the cylinder still pumnps with the rubber seal removed so the grey one to the left is the main seal. Further to that, under the white cap on the very end, is a one way valve. This seals as the pedal is pressed, but opens when released to allow fluid to be drawn into the cylinder via a hole between the main seal and the shaft seal. I actually suspect many of the master cylinder problems are caused by the grey muck that appears in the master. I'm not sure if this is wear material from the grey seal, or from the cylinder bore, or something else. Experiences of others where bleeding the system helps would tend to back this up, as the muck is temporarily washed away from stopping this valve closing. Jamie, you're welcome to have my cyl to investigate. I've cut off the pipe, but kept the other bits. Could meet you somewhere to exchange if you want.

20th February 2009, 18:17	#13
Departed Retired -- Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: -- Posts: 3,785 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	As you saw from the photo, the cylinder is stepped. I've taken the piston apart. Hadn't realised how much it came apart until I tried. I knew the white cap came off with the non return valve underneath, but didn't realise there were two parts either side of the mains seal, and that the main seal is actually in two parts: You can see below in the centre: the seal is a flexible grey plastic, with a rubber insert that sits inside it to give the fit in the cylinder. Main part of piston is far right, and to the left of the two part seal is the part that holds the seal in place, and contains the non return valve under the cap. Will get the vernier out over the weekend and do some measuring. Jamie, you are still welcome to the bits if you want them: will reassemble to prevent bits getting lost.