Automatic gearbox flushing experience - Page 2

Gman2 · 13th January 2010, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaiser

I have a strong suspicion, and that is that the manufacturers often specify something just for the sake of specifying something they earn money on.
.

You're right there! On what basis did MGR recommend Mobil 1 engine oil as stated on the engine bay and the log book

DerekS · 13th January 2010, 17:48

I have read many posts about the auto boxes, and have a question ......

Why are they so sensitive to ... the oil , ..and.. the filling temperature ?

Manual boxes dont appear to be so finiky about the oil do they ?

And surely the fill mark can be set (by the manufacturers) so that the final volume is sufficient ? If a warm fill is specified, maybe to prevent too much volume , cant the fill mark be set lower so a normal temp fill can be used ?.. But then, the coefficient of expansion of oil isnt so great is it ? between normal and specified fill temps ? (didnt i see 35 deg mentioned )

I remain sirs, confused .

And a few years ago, I used a Rover garage for the annual service to my 218diesel.
I saw they had used Shell Helix engine oil, so the next time a service was due , and not wishing to mix lubricants. I went there again.
But this time the bill showed Unipart oil had been used . I questioned that, and was told 'SHELL NOT RECOMMENDED SIR, ONLY MINERAL OIL IS RECOMMENDED ' To support this statement , they showed me the official booklet ,and there it was......several manufacturers, all MINERAL oils !
When the guy turned his back, I flipped the page over and ........ another list of oils, semi/full synthetic, including Shell Helix. Words were said ! and they offered to change the oil for the Shell, which I accepted. But who knows what they put in????? That wasnt the only problem I had with them , and fortunately they are now out of business.

robwijnstok · 13th January 2010, 19:41

Hi Derek,

Big difference between manual boxes and auto boxes is that in a car with a manual box the clutch is NOT in the gearbox, in an automatic box, the friction plates are on the inside of the gearbox.
So a manual box has a dry clutch and the auto box has a wet clutch system. In my opinion that is the big difference. The manual box oil is not contaminated by the little friction parts of the clutch, the auto box will be contaminated by these parts. The auto box has more rotating parts than a manual box so the life for the oil and its dopes is harder.

Regarding the oil filled cold or warm, and what sort of oil to use.
There are indeed many spooky stories in the internet and also on the forums on these subjects. My idea was to do some research of my own. I have called several specialists, have read half the internet including this and other forums, and then I have made up my mind.

Because of the spooky stories, I thought it was good to share my experience with the forum inclusive the recommendations of the firms that I have spoken with. This is just to show that there is no need to be spastic about the subject. Let you inform by a known authority on the subject (i.m.o. a known transmission specialist) and make up your own mind. Don’t call just one specialist but 4, 5 or 6 if you need. You will recognize the real specialist when you speak to him. There are also “specialists” like some ex. MG Rover dealers, do a search on the forum, and see how many times they diagnose wrong, and give stupid advises.
Then after making up your mind you better do a one way 100 kilometer drive for a good service like I did than go cheapy cheapy and do the service local with a risk of a wrong procedure or wrong oil used. For this very reason I travel each year to Lates (one way is 700 km) for a service of my beloved 75. Only the best counts here…! Realize that if your auto gearbox is destroyed an overhaul or box swap is very expensive!!!

Let you inform, trust your own ears and eyes, make up your mind, and do the thing that gives you the best feeling. I did and I am very happy knowing/feeling I did the best for my 75.

Rob.

robwijnstok · 13th January 2010, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by capese21

I had a look at the spec for the Eurol ATF1100 and it does say it is compatible where JF7045E fluid is specified.

I am happy to eat a slice of humble pie as this is the first time I have ever seen this actually stated in print by a manufacturer.

The thing for me is though does it offer any advantage of using the Rover XPART JF7045 fluid which is still easy to obtain?

I am not aware that the Eurol ATF1100 is available in the UK anyway.

For me as long as the Rover fluid is available then I will stick with it.

Caltex Texamatic 7045E is available and Castrol in the USA also make a suitable product.

Now going off to eat the pie.

Ed.

Hi Ed,

I think the used oil is not that exiting as long as the oil does have the same spec or better than the original used by Jatco/Rover.
More important is that automatic gearbox oil acually is changed at least by the service interval of Rover.
Every 50.000km or 4 years is even better I was told.

I hope you have enjoyed your pie…

Rob.

capese21 · 15th January 2010, 23:05

Quote:

I hope you have enjoyed your pie…

Yes I poured ATF all over it yummy!!

92 squadron · 15th January 2010, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by robwijnstok

Hi Derek,

Big difference between manual boxes and auto boxes is that in a car with a manual box the clutch is NOT in the gearbox, in an automatic box, the friction plates are on the inside of the gearbox.
So a manual box has a dry clutch and the auto box has a wet clutch system. In my opinion that is the big difference. The manual box oil is not contaminated by the little friction parts of the clutch, the auto box will be contaminated by these parts. The auto box has more rotating parts than a manual box so the life for the oil and its dopes is harder.

Regarding the oil filled cold or warm, and what sort of oil to use.
There are indeed many spooky stories in the internet and also on the forums on these subjects. My idea was to do some research of my own. I have called several specialists, have read half the internet including this and other forums, and then I have made up my mind.

Because of the spooky stories, I thought it was good to share my experience with the forum inclusive the recommendations of the firms that I have spoken with. This is just to show that there is no need to be spastic about the subject. Let you inform by a known authority on the subject (i.m.o. a known transmission specialist) and make up your own mind. Don’t call just one specialist but 4, 5 or 6 if you need. You will recognize the real specialist when you speak to him. There are also “specialists” like some ex. MG Rover dealers, do a search on the forum, and see how many times they diagnose wrong, and give stupid advises.
Then after making up your mind you better do a one way 100 kilometer drive for a good service like I did than go cheapy cheapy and do the service local with a risk of a wrong procedure or wrong oil used. For this very reason I travel each year to Lates (one way is 700 km) for a service of my beloved 75. Only the best counts here…! Realize that if your auto gearbox is destroyed an overhaul or box swap is very expensive!!!

Let you inform, trust your own ears and eyes, make up your mind, and do the thing that gives you the best feeling. I did and I am very happy knowing/feeling I did the best for my 75.

Rob.

Hi Rob,
That was a very interesting thread infact I shall read it again after sleep!

crofts · 16th January 2010, 00:03

Not aware Eurol is available here in UK (as in Holland).
Had my ATF changed at 30,000 miles and will continue with this interval.
As N402 and 7045E is easily available (up to now anyway) there seems no need to consider other brands. As 7045E is the later spec. fluid released after MG/Rover drew up the servicing schedules and lubricants I will use this in future.
I have to go along with the suggestion not to use dealers for the auto box.
Some time ago now, one of our 'senior' members phoned 10 dealers. Only 1 could specify the correct fluid for the Jatco box. Many of them said "we use Dextron, which is the same"
Whether the situation has changed, I don't know, but at the time very little was known in the club about Jatco boxes (some 5 years ago) I contacted Castrol and have their reply "we do not have a fluid suitable for the Jatco box"

Datadogie · 16th January 2010, 12:59

I like the idea of changing the oil over 500 miles a couple of times to almost comletely change the oil. But if it's a new car (to me anyway) how do you know which oil is there to begine with?

robwijnstok · 16th January 2010, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datadogie

I like the idea of changing the oil over 500 miles a couple of times to almost comletely change the oil. But if it's a new car (to me anyway) how do you know which oil is there to begine with?

You don't, unless you or the old owner know who filled the auto box and ask him. Therefore a flush would be better I suppose, in this way there is no possible mixup of two different brands, and all the old oil is out of the autobox at once.

Rob.

capese21 · 19th January 2010, 21:05

Quote:

I like the idea of changing the oil over 500 miles a couple of times to almost comletely change the oil. But if it's a new car (to me anyway) how do you know which oil is there to begine with?

My ZTT was changed at 60k and as it had been garage servived that is the first scheduled change. I assumed MGR put there own fluid in at the factory so I replaced with the same and have had no problems.

Ed.

13th January 2010, 19:41	#13
robwijnstok Gets stuck in Rover 75 Tourer 2.5V6 autobox, Rover Streetwise 2.0 DTi, MG ZR160 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Gelderland Posts: 617 Thanks: 5 Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts	Hi Derek, Big difference between manual boxes and auto boxes is that in a car with a manual box the clutch is NOT in the gearbox, in an automatic box, the friction plates are on the inside of the gearbox. So a manual box has a dry clutch and the auto box has a wet clutch system. In my opinion that is the big difference. The manual box oil is not contaminated by the little friction parts of the clutch, the auto box will be contaminated by these parts. The auto box has more rotating parts than a manual box so the life for the oil and its dopes is harder. Regarding the oil filled cold or warm, and what sort of oil to use. There are indeed many spooky stories in the internet and also on the forums on these subjects. My idea was to do some research of my own. I have called several specialists, have read half the internet including this and other forums, and then I have made up my mind. Because of the spooky stories, I thought it was good to share my experience with the forum inclusive the recommendations of the firms that I have spoken with. This is just to show that there is no need to be spastic about the subject. Let you inform by a known authority on the subject (i.m.o. a known transmission specialist) and make up your own mind. Don’t call just one specialist but 4, 5 or 6 if you need. You will recognize the real specialist when you speak to him. There are also “specialists” like some ex. MG Rover dealers, do a search on the forum, and see how many times they diagnose wrong, and give stupid advises. Then after making up your mind you better do a one way 100 kilometer drive for a good service like I did than go cheapy cheapy and do the service local with a risk of a wrong procedure or wrong oil used. For this very reason I travel each year to Lates (one way is 700 km) for a service of my beloved 75. Only the best counts here…! Realize that if your auto gearbox is destroyed an overhaul or box swap is very expensive!!! Let you inform, trust your own ears and eyes, make up your mind, and do the thing that gives you the best feeling. I did and I am very happy knowing/feeling I did the best for my 75. Rob. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Membership Number 344 Driving with a BIG smile... and it's Chatsworth Elegant Bronze. Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly!

16th January 2010, 00:03	#17
crofts I really should get out more....... 2003 Rover 75 Conn. SE Auto Tourer 131 ps CDTi Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bristol Posts: 2,512 Thanks: 38 Thanked 67 Times in 55 Posts	ATF mumblings ! Not aware Eurol is available here in UK (as in Holland). Had my ATF changed at 30,000 miles and will continue with this interval. As N402 and 7045E is easily available (up to now anyway) there seems no need to consider other brands. As 7045E is the later spec. fluid released after MG/Rover drew up the servicing schedules and lubricants I will use this in future. I have to go along with the suggestion not to use dealers for the auto box. Some time ago now, one of our 'senior' members phoned 10 dealers. Only 1 could specify the correct fluid for the Jatco box. Many of them said "we use Dextron, which is the same" Whether the situation has changed, I don't know, but at the time very little was known in the club about Jatco boxes (some 5 years ago) I contacted Castrol and have their reply "we do not have a fluid suitable for the Jatco box" __________________ Rover 75 CDTi SE Connoisseur Tourer (2003) In desirable STARLIGHT SILVER (now restored to it's former glory with all the chrome !)

13th January 2010, 17:48	#12
DerekS Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Malpas Posts: 1,526 Thanks: 34 Thanked 118 Times in 89 Posts	I have read many posts about the auto boxes, and have a question ...... Why are they so sensitive to ... the oil , ..and.. the filling temperature ? Manual boxes dont appear to be so finiky about the oil do they ? And surely the fill mark can be set (by the manufacturers) so that the final volume is sufficient ? If a warm fill is specified, maybe to prevent too much volume , cant the fill mark be set lower so a normal temp fill can be used ?.. But then, the coefficient of expansion of oil isnt so great is it ? between normal and specified fill temps ? (didnt i see 35 deg mentioned ) I remain sirs, confused . And a few years ago, I used a Rover garage for the annual service to my 218diesel. I saw they had used Shell Helix engine oil, so the next time a service was due , and not wishing to mix lubricants. I went there again. But this time the bill showed Unipart oil had been used . I questioned that, and was told 'SHELL NOT RECOMMENDED SIR, ONLY MINERAL OIL IS RECOMMENDED ' To support this statement , they showed me the official booklet ,and there it was......several manufacturers, all MINERAL oils ! When the guy turned his back, I flipped the page over and ........ another list of oils, semi/full synthetic, including Shell Helix. Words were said ! and they offered to change the oil for the Shell, which I accepted. But who knows what they put in????? That wasnt the only problem I had with them , and fortunately they are now out of business.

16th January 2010, 12:59	#18
Datadogie Avid contributor Rover 75 CONNOISSEUR SE CDTi AUTO Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Aberdeen Posts: 170 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I like the idea of changing the oil over 500 miles a couple of times to almost comletely change the oil. But if it's a new car (to me anyway) how do you know which oil is there to begine with?