renovating a house, so expensive

[freck]

Originally Posted by mss

The difference is that you are a "time served electrician".

The question is, would you want to certify an unknown person's car repairs for a relatively small charge e.g. clutch change on a CDT or brake changes?

Isn't this what an MOT tester does?

It makes no difference if you're time served or not. The whole idea of the inspection is that the installation should be physically inspected and electrically tested to ensure it is safe and complies to regs before a certificate is issued. This is why it applies to everyone's work, time served or not.

[MSS]

I agree that house wiring and plumbing really is quite simple and just requires one to research the necessary regulations and be methgodical. I've done both myself in the distant past.

The problem is that most people botch the simplest of tasks and I for one would not wish to certify another's work unless I really knew the person or had inspected the work being carried out.

For most tradesmen the question of insurance cover would also be a concern if someone else had carried out the work.

We only have to look at how some cars have been "maintained" by their owners!

[freck]

I'd totally agree with you Maninder, some people should really be banned from owning tools.
This was the reason Part P and Corgi/Gas Safe were introduced however, like many similar regulations they've become a licence to print money.
It's understandable why tradesmen charge so much really though when they have to shell out so much to be certified to inspect. I don't know the costs now but I know that ten years ago Corgi training/registration was about £1500 per year.
Unfortunately though, it just ends up as a vicious circle, getting more expensive for us customers.

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by freck

Isn't this what an MOT tester does?

It makes no difference if you're time served or not. The whole idea of the inspection is that the installation should be physically inspected and electrically tested to ensure it is safe and complies to regs before a certificate is issued. This is why it applies to everyone's work, time served or not.

The problem being that much of the work is hidden from sight and heavily relies upon the installer knowing what they are doing. Not many know that cable has to be derated where is passes through insulation, not many know that certain types of insulation can attack the PVC of cables, not many know where the safe zones are where cables can be run, not many know where joints are acceptable and what type of joint. All of it hidden and not something which can be tested for after installation.

I wouldn't want to just walk in on a completed installation, all plastered and second fixed, to just sign the work off as safe. Most installations will pass a cursory inspection and test, but that doesn't mean the work has been done to standard.

I'm a qualified electrical engineer (amongst other things), I spent my working life on industrial, large power and high voltages, control and instrumentation etc.. You would think that would more than qualify me to be Part P qualified, but no. To be right, I would need to call a much lesser qualified person in to inspect my work.

[Darcydog]

A case in point is the new regulations re Consumer Units now being required to be fire-proof from January this year.

I asked my Sparks why and he showed me info that stated that the standard of the switches is now so poor that they have caused fires Also some "electricians" have not been making the connections properly so arcing has occurred leading to fires.

My question to anyone with more knowledge than me on this issue is why is the consumer put to great expense via having to have a new metal encased consumer unit replacing his old one because the chinese made imported switches that now go in the Consumer Unit are fire hazards? And to to crack down harder of the Cowboy builders?

Surely it would be better to apply a higher standard to the switches and workmanship rather than allow substandard ones to be used and with no real checks but instead stipulate that we should all have them in fireproof boxes

I can see the perverted sense in this - but it is ar&& about face surely?

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

Also some "electricians" have not been making the connections properly so arcing has occurred leading to fires.

Well, there have been some cases where MCB's have been poor quality forgeries, catching fire and I have seen many examples of dodgy workmanship almost causing fires too.

Many 'engineers' are not taught how to properly terminate cables. It seems a fairly basic thing to do, but it is so easy to get it wrong and I come across numerous examples of poor workmanship (not mine) in my own home.

The grey part of the T&E is not insulation, it is mechanical protection and should be stripped back well clear of terminals. When tightening a terminal, the correct way is to tighten it, settle the cable in with a wiggle and tighten some more, then finally give the cable a good tug, to make sure it has been properly gripped.

I once had to go to a sight where a 'qualified engineer' had failed to follow this basic rule, to try to help them work out why a large a/c unit would not work. They had made a muck of every single termination they had made - all the cables were loose in the terminals, they had simply missed the cable sockets and tightened onto fresh air. All of their work had to be rechecked.

A Part P inspection alone just would not pick things up like this, it relies on those installing being competent and doing a competent job.