Is a B&D Simple Start safe to use?

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by kaiser

this is of course not true. It is like linking two buckets of water. The level in both buckets will eventually be the same. So you can of course charge a battery, but not fully, from another battery. You will even the charge on both.
However you can leave the battery connected via the cigar socket, and the car will charge this and the car's own battery fine.
It will in essence work as if you had two batteries installed in your car, which is indeed the case i some cars.

Sorry--this is totally wrong Mr Kaiser Sir.

Go read about batteries in the thread titled the --'Really Really useful info' at the top of the page. Your analogy confuses 'pressure' with 'capacity'.



Colvert.

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by kaiser

Two batteries of the same type and condition connected, will perfectly equalize their charges given time. They will behave exactly like two buckets of water connected with a pipe at the bottom.
It is physically impossible to have anything else.
Current will flow until the charge density is equal in both batteries, at which state the voltage will be the same.

Unfortunately not true.

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by kaiser

There is a direct correlation between the voltage measured and the charge of the battery. Two batteries of the same type and the same condition, yet one charged and one not, would display two different voltages.
If you would care to go and verify that from any graph depicting charge vs voltage, you could perhaps go and look at the link in the previous post?
It is perfectly sensible to expect two batteries connected together to equalize their charges, and that is indeed what happens.
What would be unreasonable, is to expect the one battery to charge the other fully, and I have never claimed that. What I have claimed, and what is indeed true, is that if you connect another battery, that is charged to your discharged car battery, that a flow will go from the charged battery into the uncharged battery and that will persist, until the voltage difference is nil.

So the case is, in this story, it will help to connect any other battery with a higher charge to your car battery.

Just you try it----it doesn't work.

[VMax1000]

Originally Posted by COLVERT

Sorry--this is totally wrong Mr Kaiser Sir.

Go read about batteries in the thread titled the --'Really Really useful info' at the top of the page. Your analogy confuses 'pressure' with 'capacity'.



Colvert.

In theory they should, as it has nothing to do with capacity or pressure, but with stored energy.
If there is an open connection from energy bank to energy bank, it should equalise.

2 bucket of water will, providing they're identical buckets, pressure vessels will, again providing they're the same.

Unfortunately resistance of the wires comes into play as well.

Quite a nice write-up here http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...-on-their-own&

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by Supervinnie40

Well... this turned ugly quickly .

For those who happen to have a donor car, or another type of scrap/extra car, I'd say try it out. All these posts trying to disprove each other don't do a lot until you show a video of a test.

I hope I never have to use my Simple Start thingy, but when I do, I'll let you guys know how it went .

Provided it's in good nick it will do what it says on the box. ( Just. )


Colvert.

[VMax1000]

Maybe Simple Start turns out to be Simply Not Start.

Jury is out on this one

[COLVERT]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Thanks very much for your support Maninder.


Absolutely; I understand that. What I was drawing everyone's attention to is the strange technical data given by Black & Decker in their product details. See if you can make any sense of it Maninder. Here's the link.

In the 'specifications' tab, as Harry pointed out, they say this:

Battery type 3 x 6V 6 Ah sealed lead acid

But in the panel above they say this:

12 volt DC outlet connects the booster from inside your vehicle without any need for jump leads

Now, that's confusing to say the least! What is the output of this device: is it 18v or is it 12v?

Before giving them the benefit of the doubt, they also say this:

Constant Power 8 Amps

That indicates to me that this webpage has been composed by someone who doesn't have a clue about electrical units or lead acid batteries. As we know, amps are not a unit of power and their 6Ah battery pack will not deliver 8 amps constantly; it will of course have a time limit which they need to declare.

A further point is that, as we know, vehicle charging systems deliver a maximum voltage of about 14.5 v and this, coming from the alternator, contains a hefty ripple which is 'smoothed' by the vehicle battery. The Black & Decker device allegedly delivers 18 v DC, a level which would normally ring alarm bells if our alternators supplied it.

Simon

The 12 volt DC outlet is a description of the part that is IN YOUR car.

The 18 volt booster plugs into the 12 volt outlet.--

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by VMax1000

In theory they should, as it has nothing to do with capacity or pressure, but with stored energy.
If there is an open connection from energy bank to energy bank, it should equalise.

2 bucket of water will, providing they're identical buckets, pressure vessels will, again providing they're the same.

Unfortunately resistance of the wires comes into play as well.

Quite a nice write-up here http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...-on-their-own&

..and there was me thinking you learned something about battery theory - obviously not

Please go away and read some proper technical papers, then come back and tell us what you know. For the last time (hopefully), these are not buckets, pressure vessels or any other type of water container, they are batteries.

Batteries behave very differently to water containers. The analogy of electricity behaving like water flow, has some serious limitations and is one used as a means of teaching the early learning stages of the subject.

The link you quote, has little to do with your rather revolutionary bucket theory, neither is most of it written by technically qualified people. It is not resistance of the wire which prevents the two batteries sharing their charged state, it is a simple lac of voltage. To take a charge, a battery needs to have a much larger voltage applied across it, than another battery of the same voltage can provide. Resistance with no current flow, has zero impact on the current flow.

Please stop spreading mis-information, someone might just take it as being gospel. Please stop hinting at your having a degree in the subject, because within your first few few sentences in this thread, it was pretty obvious you did not, nor appeared to possess even a basic understanding of the topic.

To charge one battery from another, the charging battery needs a substantial 'voltage advantage'. The lack of any voltage advantage of two similar batteries, means there will be no charge transferred.

Several people have already tried to explain the holes in your bucket theory, so why persist with it?

[VMax1000]

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

..and there was me thinking you learned something about battery theory - obviously not

Please go away and read some proper technical papers, then come back and tell us what you know. For the last time (hopefully), these are not buckets, pressure vessels or any other type of water container, they are batteries.

Batteries behave very differently to water containers. The analogy of electricity behaving like water flow, has some serious limitations and is one used as a means of teaching the early learning stages of the subject.

The link you quote, has little to do with your rather revolutionary bucket theory, neither is most of it written by technically qualified people.

Please stop spreading mis-information, someone might just take it as being gospel. Please stop hinting at your having a degree in the subject, because within your first few few sentences in this thread, it was pretty obvious you did not, nor appeared to possess even a basic understanding of the topic.

To charge one battery from another, the charging battery needs a substantial 'voltage advantage'. The lack of any voltage advantage of two similar batteries, means there will be no charge transferred.

Several people have already tried to explain the holes in your bucket theory, so why persist with it?

Oops.......no need to get personal here.

Stored energy will equalise as will 2 buckets of water.
If you have proof of the opposite, please share.

But as you said before, I don't know about qualifications of people, nor their background, but they haven't given any proof either

So if you would care to explain why it wouldn't work as 2 buckets of water
(and please include the formulas, as I can understand those) feel free.

[COLVERT]

Hi--Harry.


Did you read my post 117. If so, what do you think ???



Colv.