sounds expensive part 2, rover 75 cdt 02 - Page 6

Dragrad · 4th May 2009, 22:44

Any evidence of water having reached the ECU?

Timbo.P6 · 4th May 2009, 23:30

dont think so,hopefully after Lee has been over it might help discover what is wrong, fingers crossed,
if not ,its going on a T1 computer this sunday, so fingers crossed this time next week we might be mobile again
What a brilliant bunch of guys are in this club, thanks guys

gerry3 · 4th May 2009, 23:49

The apparent symptoms are that the car will turn over and run for a few seconds if easy start is used but nothing else after that.

Cheers
Lee.[/quote]

I have had many years working with plant that had diesel engines and I would not recomend that you use easy start, perhaps only to prove that the fault is fuel related but even then not until we had tried every other means we could think of to get it started.
Some engines would not start with out it after a few times and the only cure was then to rebuild the engine.
What we would do is to remove an injector from the head and re-conect it to the feed pipe and then turn the engine over, keeping well away from the injector spray head.This proved if fuel was being injected into the engine or not. But please do not use easy start or your next posting will be "Why wont it start from cold with out it".
Could I also add that the same applies to petrol engines.

Hope you find the root of the problem soon.

Gerry3

Dragrad · 4th May 2009, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerry3

But please do not use easy start or your next posting will be "Why wont it start from cold with out it".
Could I also add that the same applies to petrol engines.

Hope you find the root of the problem soon.

Gerry3

That's why it is known as "Heroin for cars" Once used... the car is addicted

Zeb · 5th May 2009, 07:01

I would put money on this being ecu related...trouble is, it is expensive to find out.

JohnDotCom · 5th May 2009, 07:21

.....and going full circle you would need a T4 to change it!

efreeti · 5th May 2009, 16:10

I might have an HP pump you could borrow fairly soon if it came to it. Hoping to get the head off and inspect the pistons on the old engine this week so can get the HPP off while I'm at it.

I imagine it isn't the easiest thing to refit on the off chance though

Fraser Mitchell · 5th May 2009, 18:38

I don't know the 'ins and outs' of the diesels, but sometimes on car injection systems there is a check that the engine is running that the ECU has to detect in order to keep the engine running, and this is bypassed during the starting routine, which can be detected by power being supplied to the starter motor. When no power is supplied the check on whether the engine is running or not is applied. If the sensor or whatever is giving an indication that the engine is not running the fuel supply is cut off. So your engine starts but as soon as it starts and the starter motor is shut down, the engine stops within seconds.

This was the case on an old Jaguar XJ6 I once had which had an early fuel injection system, (Bosch L-Jetronic) and analogue system. The mass airflow box which had a flat valve that moved as the air entered the inlet manifold and had a pair of contacts in it that were closed by the flap once the air started passing and this kept the fuel pump running. It was bypassed during starting with, (I think), a relay. There was some safety issue that had resulted in this arrangement.

Might be worth a look to see what checks there are in the ECU to determine whether the engine is running or not.

Fraser Mitchell · 5th May 2009, 19:20

I also see mentioned that the fuel pump relay is working as it should : -

"Fuel pump relay is working as it should, with the pumps both running for just less than 1 minute before shutting down as per book." But of course this is with the engine stationary.

However according to the Rover handbook DVD, if the ignition is turned on and the engine started, the ECM energises the relay continuously. So if the ECM does not do this, the engine will run for the 5 seconds using up the residual pressure. So the question is - what tells the ECU to continually energise the relay rather than shut it down after a minute ? There must be something, or it would not do it. I am trying to see that this entity is in the DVD text, but there is an awful lot of it to wade through.

Hope I'm not being a nuisance here, just trying to help.

Timbo.P6 · 5th May 2009, 19:50

good news tonight is she has started up bad news looks likedodggy fuel

4th May 2009, 22:44	#51
Dragrad This is my second home *None DROWNED** Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Cardigan Posts: 33,339 Thanks: 1,257 Thanked 1,664 Times in 1,081 Posts	Any evidence of water having reached the ECU? __________________ Andrew Ich Dien Problem solving is... lateral thinking SEARCH FIRST ...ASK LATER...

4th May 2009, 23:30	#52
Timbo.P6 Posted a thing or two ROVER 75 CONNOISSEUR T SE WITH MISSING SATNAV ROVER P6 2000 SC Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Doncaster Posts: 1,484 Thanks: 429 Thanked 77 Times in 44 Posts	dont think so,hopefully after Lee has been over it might help discover what is wrong, fingers crossed, if not ,its going on a T1 computer this sunday, so fingers crossed this time next week we might be mobile again What a brilliant bunch of guys are in this club, thanks guys __________________ Back in Rover land, with 1.8T and Freelander HSE 2.0 td4

5th May 2009, 16:10	#57
efreeti Gets stuck in ZT-T CDT 130+ (04) & 75 Tourer CDT Auto (52) & a 1998 MGF (with HGF!) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Halifax Posts: 903 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I might have an HP pump you could borrow fairly soon if it came to it. Hoping to get the head off and inspect the pistons on the old engine this week so can get the HPP off while I'm at it. I imagine it isn't the easiest thing to refit on the off chance though __________________ Jim Replace in tank fuel pump with Peugeot alternative Dismantle and re-fit interior and seats Retrofit electric memory seats without the loom All followed at your own risk! Available to borrow: I have a home made (tried and tested) Cam Locking tool for M47 should anyone need it.

5th May 2009, 19:50	#60
Timbo.P6 Posted a thing or two ROVER 75 CONNOISSEUR T SE WITH MISSING SATNAV ROVER P6 2000 SC Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Doncaster Posts: 1,484 Thanks: 429 Thanked 77 Times in 44 Posts	good news tonight is she has started up bad news looks likedodggy fuel __________________ Back in Rover land, with 1.8T and Freelander HSE 2.0 td4

4th May 2009, 23:49	#53
gerry3 Passed Away rover 75 saloon Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: leeds Posts: 186 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The apparent symptoms are that the car will turn over and run for a few seconds if easy start is used but nothing else after that. Cheers Lee.[/quote] I have had many years working with plant that had diesel engines and I would not recomend that you use easy start, perhaps only to prove that the fault is fuel related but even then not until we had tried every other means we could think of to get it started. Some engines would not start with out it after a few times and the only cure was then to rebuild the engine. What we would do is to remove an injector from the head and re-conect it to the feed pipe and then turn the engine over, keeping well away from the injector spray head.This proved if fuel was being injected into the engine or not. But please do not use easy start or your next posting will be "Why wont it start from cold with out it". Could I also add that the same applies to petrol engines. Hope you find the root of the problem soon. Gerry3

5th May 2009, 07:01	#55
Zeb Banned MGZT V8 & ZTT 190+LPG Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,089 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I would put money on this being ecu related...trouble is, it is expensive to find out.

5th May 2009, 07:21	#56
JohnDotCom * Rover 75 FaceLift Tourer CDTi 170BHP Auto ConnSE 2005 Model Starlight Silver Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Abergele Posts: 28,735 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	.....and going full circle you would need a T4 to change it!

5th May 2009, 18:38	#58
Fraser Mitchell Gets stuck in Rover 75 2.5 V6 Club Auto Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Crewe Posts: 898 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I don't know the 'ins and outs' of the diesels, but sometimes on car injection systems there is a check that the engine is running that the ECU has to detect in order to keep the engine running, and this is bypassed during the starting routine, which can be detected by power being supplied to the starter motor. When no power is supplied the check on whether the engine is running or not is applied. If the sensor or whatever is giving an indication that the engine is not running the fuel supply is cut off. So your engine starts but as soon as it starts and the starter motor is shut down, the engine stops within seconds. This was the case on an old Jaguar XJ6 I once had which had an early fuel injection system, (Bosch L-Jetronic) and analogue system. The mass airflow box which had a flat valve that moved as the air entered the inlet manifold and had a pair of contacts in it that were closed by the flap once the air started passing and this kept the fuel pump running. It was bypassed during starting with, (I think), a relay. There was some safety issue that had resulted in this arrangement. Might be worth a look to see what checks there are in the ECU to determine whether the engine is running or not.

5th May 2009, 19:20	#59
Fraser Mitchell Gets stuck in Rover 75 2.5 V6 Club Auto Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Crewe Posts: 898 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I also see mentioned that the fuel pump relay is working as it should : - "Fuel pump relay is working as it should, with the pumps both running for just less than 1 minute before shutting down as per book." But of course this is with the engine stationary. However according to the Rover handbook DVD, if the ignition is turned on and the engine started, the ECM energises the relay continuously. So if the ECM does not do this, the engine will run for the 5 seconds using up the residual pressure. So the question is - what tells the ECU to continually energise the relay rather than shut it down after a minute ? There must be something, or it would not do it. I am trying to see that this entity is in the DVD text, but there is an awful lot of it to wade through. Hope I'm not being a nuisance here, just trying to help.