NOS (new old stock) Timing Belts

[TeeCeeColley]

When I started this thread I chose not to name the timing kit supplier that brought this issue to light. As it is they (DMGRS) have voluntarily joined in and seem genuinely eager to resolve the matter and this may help them. Read on.

Notwithstanding the repacking of the 2012 belt labelled as 2018 by AllMakes4X4, where I presume DMGRS get their stock, I believe Dayco themselves are complicit in this matter.

You may recall I said I would source a younger main timing belt here in Australia. A local motor factor told me they had one manufactured in 2022. Turns out the one they supplied, in a sealed blue Dayco carton, carried a packaging date of 2024 which made me happy but my joy was short lived when I opened it and saw the belt carried a manufacturing date of 2019. Picture attached .

The other thing that caught my eye was the different branding and part # nomenclature. Though both carry the correct Pt # 94719 the 2012 belt was branded Dayco Isoran and the 2019 was branded just Dayco. Picture attached. Turns out neither belt was actually made by Dayco. The Dayco Isoran item was made in Italy for Dayco by Megadyne, Isoran being the proprietary name of Megadyne's automotive timing belt line. Dayco maybe had some corporate involvement with them at one point.
The 2019 belt simply branded Dayco has no reference to Isoran and I believe it is made in China for Dayco by an unknown entity unless Dayco actually have a rubber products plant there.

The two belts 'feel' quite different. The 2012 Dayco Isoran is hard and rigid, wanting to unravel when coiled, whereas the 2019 Dayco seems more 'rubbery' and is much more flexible. Whether this difference is due to the variation in age or due material/construction differences I don't know. The 2012 Dayco Isoran actually 'feels' heavier prompting me to get the scale and weigh them but it was actually only 6g more.

I tried a few other motor factors for a younger belt but it seems 2019 is as new a belt as I'm likely to find here in Australia. Now whether Dayco being a multinational may mean belts available in Europe all come from Italy and Dayco belts available in Asia come from China I don't know. I suspect it's probably got something to do with Rover 75 production carrying on in China until 2016 as the Roewe 750 who knows?

So where does that leave me? Do I fit the 2019 belt? What would others do? Interested to hear others thoughts. For the moment I've had enough of playing with cars and am going back to the guitar.

[DMGRS]

Originally Posted by Arctic

Hi Mike.
I agree with the outline above, at least DMGRS have taken this seriously and are doing something about it, hopefully others will follow if not then I/we you should all know what needs to be done in the future.

Mat good on you you take up the mantle and press forward.

Thank you mate

[DMGRS]

Originally Posted by TeeCeeColley

When I started this thread I chose not to name the timing kit supplier that brought this issue to light. As it is they (DMGRS) have voluntarily joined in and seem genuinely eager to resolve the matter and this may help them. Read on.

Notwithstanding the repacking of the 2012 belt labelled as 2018 by AllMakes4X4, where I presume DMGRS get their stock, I believe Dayco themselves are complicit in this matter.

You may recall I said I would source a younger main timing belt here in Australia. A local motor factor told me they had one manufactured in 2022. Turns out the one they supplied, in a sealed blue Dayco carton, carried a packaging date of 2024 which made me happy but my joy was short lived when I opened it and saw the belt carried a manufacturing date of 2019. Picture attached .

The other thing that caught my eye was the different branding and part # nomenclature. Though both carry the correct Pt # 94719 the 2012 belt was branded Dayco Isoran and the 2019 was branded just Dayco. Picture attached. Turns out neither belt was actually made by Dayco. The Dayco Isoran item was made in Italy for Dayco by Megadyne, Isoran being the proprietary name of Megadyne's automotive timing belt line. Dayco maybe had some corporate involvement with them at one point.
The 2019 belt simply branded Dayco has no reference to Isoran and I believe it is made in China for Dayco by an unknown entity unless Dayco actually have a rubber products plant there.

The two belts 'feel' quite different. The 2012 Dayco Isoran is hard and rigid, wanting to unravel when coiled, whereas the 2019 Dayco seems more 'rubbery' and is much more flexible. Whether this difference is due to the variation in age or due material/construction differences I don't know. The 2012 Dayco Isoran actually 'feels' heavier prompting me to get the scale and weigh them but it was actually only 6g more.

I tried a few other motor factors for a younger belt but it seems 2019 is as new a belt as I'm likely to find here in Australia. Now whether Dayco being a multinational may mean belts available in Europe all come from Italy and Dayco belts available in Asia come from China I don't know. I suspect it's probably got something to do with Rover 75 production carrying on in China until 2016 as the Roewe 750 who knows?

So where does that leave me? Do I fit the 2019 belt? What would others do? Interested to hear others thoughts. For the moment I've had enough of playing with cars and am going back to the guitar.

That's actually very interesting - I'll do some digging and grab some pictures of the new stock when it arrives.
I'll also see if I can find any Country of Origin information for the new stock - my understanding was always that Dayco manufacture the majority of their rubber products in Italy, but of course I'm happy to be proven wrong if they've moved their manufacturing to China (as Gates have for a lot of their products).

The important thing to remember (and I might be teaching Granny to suck eggs here) is that China doesn't automatically mean something is going to be worse - we deal with Chinese suppliers regularly for custom-made products and it's all about specification.
They're incredibly flexible when it comes to manufacturing; if a supplier approaches a Chinese manufacturer and says 'I want this product for £10 each, that's my limit' they'll end up with something of a lesser quality than if they'd said 'We want this product to be the best out there, let me know how much it'll cost and we'll go from there'.

China is absolutely capable of producing excellent parts - it all depends on what specification was set when the manufacturer was tasked with production of the part in question.
It's no secret a lot of our parts (particularly those that are hard to find) are sourced from China - but we tend to take the 'let us know how much it'd cost to do a good job' approach. We rarely have any issues with quality when taking this attitude, and I'd expect Dayco will operate in a similar way if they've moved production over there.

In short (well done if you've waded through my waffling) I wouldn't worry if the belts are sourced from China - Dayco will be incredibly stringent on quality (even if their stock rotation apparently leaves a lot to be desired!)

Let me know if you'd like me to send over a 2021-marked belt - I'm happy to do this and cover the postage cost to you too of course.

[Arctic]

I've had a quick look this morning for the gates belt ( 5527XS ) which i had on watch on the bay from different sellers and all are sold out, this is since yesterday.

Also googled the part number and quite a few sellers on the net have sold out also, there must have been a run on them

I have noted that QH have a few of there own for sale never bought or used one so do not know the quality of them, Febi do belts as well same never purchased or used a Febi belt.

[TeeCeeColley]

Originally Posted by DMGRS

......The important thing to remember (and I might be teaching Granny to suck eggs here) is that China doesn't automatically mean something is going to be worse...................

.............I wouldn't worry if the belts are sourced from China........

I'm a little baffled by your comments since no element of my post suggested concern about the country of origin of the belt. It was intended only to highlight the clear differences between the two belts in my possession and my continued hesitation to install a belt of some considerable vintage.

I wasn't going to mention it since I should've opened the cartons earlier but perhaps I should also let you know that one (yes, just one) of the short rear belts in the kit you supplied was considerably older than the date printed on the carton. Picture attached. The other one has 2023 on both the carton label and the belt itself. And they are both marked as Made in Italy though they do not have the Dayco Isoran branding suggesting manufacture in a different plant. I might take you up on your offer of a 2021 main belt but let me see if I can source a newer short belt first however I suspect the local motor factors are probably tiring of my calls.

The car remains in bits while I decide what to do, fortunately it's not a daily driver so I don't have to rush.

[DMGRS]

Originally Posted by Arctic

I've had a quick look this morning for the gates belt ( 5527XS ) which i had on watch on the bay from different sellers and all are sold out, this is since yesterday.

Also googled the part number and quite a few sellers on the net have sold out also, there must have been a run on them

I have noted that QH have a few of there own for sale never bought or used one so do not know the quality of them, Febi do belts as well same never purchased or used a Febi belt.

Not sure on the Febi item - but the QH item is dated December 2015 and has been manufactured for them by Gates (this is for the stock on the Tetrosyl Direct website)

Hopefully supply won't be an issue going forward as we've also placed an order for 100x belts from the Dayco distributor we now use - they've assured us they're going to order them directly from the factory so we know they're fresh.

[DMGRS]

Originally Posted by TeeCeeColley

I'm a little baffled by your comments since no element of my post suggested concern about the country of origin of the belt. It was intended only to highlight the clear differences between the two belts in my possession and my continued hesitation to install a belt of some considerable vintage.

I wasn't going to mention it since I should've opened the cartons earlier but perhaps I should also let you know that one (yes, just one) of the short rear belts in the kit you supplied was considerably older than the date printed on the carton. Picture attached. The other one has 2023 on both the carton label and the belt itself. And they are both marked as Made in Italy though they do not have the Dayco Isoran branding suggesting manufacture in a different plant. I might take you up on your offer of a 2021 main belt but let me see if I can source a newer short belt first however I suspect the local motor factors are probably tiring of my calls.

The car remains in bits while I decide what to do, fortunately it's not a daily driver so I don't have to rush.

My apologies if my post didn't read quite as intended - there's a lot of concern in general around the quality of vehicle parts made in China these days; some justified and some not so much.
I just thought it'd be helpful to add a bit of input from our side as it's something we're directly involved in, that's all.

We're of course happy to send over a 2021 belt for you, and we can also send over a newer LHN100420 (short belt) for you too if needed, as our current stock is all newer than 2018.

[xsport]

Originally Posted by Arctic

I've had a quick look this morning for the gates belt ( 5527XS ) which i had on watch on the bay from different sellers and all are sold out, this is since yesterday.

Also googled the part number and quite a few sellers on the net have sold out also, there must have been a run on them

I have noted that QH have a few of there own for sale never bought or used one so do not know the quality of them, Febi do belts as well same never purchased or used a Febi belt.

Been in touch with quinton hazell , and i have to say it was extremely negative. No customer service and rude. They are not interested and told me that they only drop ship belts ,so no way to check whats sent out ,and indeed no date of manufacture. They have been swallowed up now by another company and are not the quinton hazell of old,so you would not now know what you are getting.All in all a very dissapointing experience.

[Arctic]

Hi Stefan.
Thank you for letting us know another one to avoid then i wonder what dates are on the kit that ECP (Nick) is supplying for the V6 etc

[xsport]

Thanks steve. I have received 2 replies from gates regarding date manufacture codes. These are official from gates themselves , and i will post details of the codes of them on here shortly. There is a change to codes over the last 12 months,which they have also included within their last mail. I will wait a short while to see if any other replies before posting. If you send me your email address by P.M i can forward them to you if you wish. ..