Scottish independence.

[doopydug]

Originally Posted by FLYER

The dug is not for turning ?

I have always said, George - heart says "yes" - head says "No"

If there were definite answers to the important questions, it would be "yes" no hesitation but the SNP and Alex Salmond, considering they are a party set up to fight for independence, are so poorly prepared for it. There are too many unknowns. Worst for me was, 6 weeks ago, despite being set up to fight for independence, they had not even tried to work out what it will bleedin cost to BECOME independent. That , for me, is unbelievable.

Coupled with the fact that their manifesto says they will need to borrow 3bn per year to start with, despite us being this oil rich nation they keep banging on about, makes me worry.

Its going to be a tough choice on decision day, for sure but I will go with whatever the nation decides and fight for Scotland to make it a better place no matter the outcome.

[FLYER]

The choice for Scots is plain .

Vote no and you will get a tory government for the rest of your time on this planet and look what that has done for us .

When we Scots vote in a general election we might as well throw our vote in the bin because england will decide your government.

If the tories dont get a clear majority they just cosy up with any scabby mutt to get what they want.

Vote YES and ditch the lot.

[Simondi]

I'm assuming there will be live coverage etc. from each area as the ballot is announced?
Certainly could be worth waiting up for

[Roverite]

I hear all the arguments and understand them very well, but I just hope we can stick together.

The more I hear, especially from the politicians, the more I think it is Westminster and London that are hated, not the English/UK; OK we have a bit of banter between us, but I don't think we hate each other. The mainland Welsh and the Cornish feel the same neglect and feel that everything is centered on Boris' London and the South East, but so do the English outside that Westminster enclave.

Many attempts have been made over the years to decentralise the power of London by moving things like the DVLA, Pensions, etc., even industry was financially encouraged to move to outlying areas; Rover even had to build a transmission facility in South Wales in the 1960s, because they were not allowed to extend their Solihull (Birmingham) factory, admittedly not London, but it was all part of the balancing of the regions. But in the last few years, London has grown out of all proportion, mainly due to the 'courting' of the financial sector and look where that has got us; sky high house prices that no ordinary family can afford, the worst air quality of any EU city, etc., etc. London also sucks vasts amount of our taxes to pay for such things as Cross Rail and their Super Sewer, but they shift their problems outside; an example is that some social housing claimants are being persuaded to move to towns in the North, with a financial incentive to those councils, because London rental prices are too high for the public purse.

In the bigger picture, we look at the rest of our troubled World and see it fragmenting and fighting itself almost to destruction. Surely it is better to stick together and fight the real problem, which in this case is the self centered use of Westminster by the London elite.

If I have got this wrong, I hope Scotland gets its freedom and wish it well, but the rest of us will have to fight even harder; no independence for the English I fear!

Roverite.

[doopydug]

Originally Posted by Roverite

I hear all the arguments and understand them very well, but I just hope we can stick together.

The more I hear, especially from the politicians, the more I think it is Westminster and London that are hated, not the English/UK; OK we have a bit of banter between us, but I don't think we hate each other. The mainland Welsh and the Cornish feel the same neglect and feel that everything is centered on Boris' London and the South East, but so do the English outside that Westminster enclave.

Many attempts have been made over the years to decentralise the power of London by moving things like the DVLA, Pensions, etc., even industry was financially encouraged to move to outlying areas; Rover even had to build a transmission facility in South Wales in the 1960s, because they were not allowed to extend their Solihull (Birmingham) factory. But in the last few years, London has grown out of all proportion, mainly due to the 'courting' of the financial sector and look where that has got us; sky high house prices that no ordinary family can afford, the worst air quality of any EU city, etc., etc. London also sucks vasts amount of our taxes to pay for such things as Cross Rail and their Super Sewer, but they shift their problems outside; an example is that some social housing claimants are being persuaded to move to towns in the North, with a financial incentive to those councils, because London rental prices are too high for the public purse.

In the bigger picture, we look at the rest of our troubled World and see it fragmenting and fighting itself almost to destruction. Surely it is better to stick together and fight the real problem, which in this case is the self centered use of Westminster by the London elite.

If I have got this wrong, I hope Scotland gets its freedom and wish it well, but the rest of us will have to fight even harder; no independence for the English I fear!

Roverite.

Well said !

[murphyv310]

Originally Posted by Roverite

I hear all the arguments and understand them very well, but I just hope we can stick together.

The more I hear, especially from the politicians, the more I think it is Westminster and London that are hated, not the English/UK; OK we have a bit of banter between us, but I don't think we hate each other. The mainland Welsh and the Cornish feel the same neglect and feel that everything is centered on Boris' London and the South East, but so do the English outside that Westminster enclave.

Many attempts have been made over the years to decentralise the power of London by moving things like the DVLA, Pensions, etc., even industry was financially encouraged to move to outlying areas; Rover even had to build a transmission facility in South Wales in the 1960s, because they were not allowed to extend their Solihull (Birmingham) factory. But in the last few years, London has grown out of all proportion, mainly due to the 'courting' of the financial sector and look where that has got us; sky high house prices that no ordinary family can afford, the worst air quality of any EU city, etc., etc. London also sucks vasts amount of our taxes to pay for such things as Cross Rail and their Super Sewer, but they shift their problems outside; an example is that some social housing claimants are being persuaded to move to towns in the North, with a financial incentive to those councils, because London rental prices are too high for the public purse.

In the bigger picture, we look at the rest of our troubled World and see it fragmenting and fighting itself almost to destruction. Surely it is better to stick together and fight the real problem, which in this case is the self centered use of Westminster by the London elite.

If I have got this wrong, I hope Scotland gets its freedom and wish it well, but the rest of us will have to fight even harder; no independence for the English I fear!

Roverite.

I agree totally.

[Simondi]

Good point around the Barnett formula.

I suppose that once the tax raised in Scotland can be solely used for the benefit of Scotland as opposed to the situation now where we pay in and get an allowance back there will be no need for it. At least not for us.

The big question will then be for the rUk is one of fairness of distribution. Is it fair how the biggest investments etc go to the South East ? Is the split of funds in the North East comparable or fair in relation to that of the Midlands or South West?

There will be lots of change, some good and some bad for all of the uk irrespective of whatever the vote says

[FLYER]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

Wish that I could !

Funnily enough reading your posts I was getting that feeling ...

[topman]

Originally Posted by FLYER

The choice for Scots is plain .

Vote no and you will get a tory government for the rest of your time on this planet and look what that has done for us .

When we Scots vote in a general election we might as well throw our vote in the bin because england will decide your government.

If the tories dont get a clear majority they just cosy up with any scabby mutt to get what they want.

Vote YES and ditch the lot.

Well I suppose that's Democracy. There will be millions that didn't end up with the gov they voted for.

Not sure why you think there will be a Conservative gov for a long time, they haven't has a majority gov for a generation in Westminster.

[topman]

I've done a bit of reading about this.
It's interesting that tone of the debate is different which side of the boarder you are on. From the Scottish side it's about keeping the Conservatives out, and that really just want to hang on to Scotland to keep hold of the money (with stats to prove it).
Yet in England it's the other way around, Scotland in the main is in benefit and rUK will be better off financially (with stats to prove it). And not so much the Tories keeping hold of the Scots but Labour. They are running the No campaign they are very much trying to keep hold (well it's MPs). Without Scottish votes Labour will really struggle to get in. For the Conservatives it's a big plus, a loss of lots of seats that they could never win anyway. Their next biggest party cut down in size.