Warranty Claim

__chris__ · 7th February 2013, 16:22

I spotted some water drops leaking from the engine casing this morning and my trusty mobile mechanic came over this afternoon and pressure tested the system and thinks that it may be a Head Gasket failure.

The warranty I bought with the car last September excludes damage caused by all sorts of things like neglect, failure to maintain in a roadworthy condition etc. and specifically mentions "the effects of overheating..."
In order to get a claim approved, I will need to pay for the car to be stripped and the cause of the HGF diagnosed. So I'm wondering, what sort of thing might my mechanic need to be looking for as possible causes for the HGF that will allow me to get a succesful claim and therefore the cost of the repairs met?

chrissyboy · 7th February 2013, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by __chris__

I spotted some water drops leaking from the engine casing this morning and my trusty mobile mechanic came over this afternoon and pressure tested the system and thinks that it may be a Head Gasket failure.

The warranty I bought with the car last September excludes damage caused by all sorts of things like neglect, failure to maintain in a roadworthy condition etc. and specifically mentions "the effects of overheating..."
In order to get a claim approved, I will need to pay for the car to be stripped and the cause of the HGF diagnosed. So I'm wondering, what sort of thing might my mechanic need to be looking for as possible causes for the HGF that will allow me to get a succesful claim and therefore the cost of the repairs met?

water pump?

it may not be hgf ,leaking inlet manifold gasket leaky hoses leaky water pump.

T-Cut · 7th February 2013, 20:24

Well assuming you haven't overheated the engine due to the coolant leak, then the gasket work done previously (I would assume), hasn't been done properly. A badly prepared head (eg warped) will not seal correctly and will leak without HGF. On that basis the warranty conditions have been complied with and the gasket should appear OK. If it has 'blown' in the traditional way, then overheating is the most logical cause and the warranty is void. I'd say this could be a very difficult thing the prove and may depend on the seller's good will.

Of course, it may not be leaking from the head gasket. The inlet manifold often leaks externally and this can dribble into the head join giving a false impression of the source.

TC

SD1too · 8th February 2013, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by __chris__

I spotted some water drops leaking from the engine casing this morning and my trusty mobile mechanic ... thinks that it may be a Head Gasket failure.

Chris,

As has been said above, you don't have enough evidence to suspect that. Has the coolant level been low? Has the engine overheated? Is there 'mayonnaise' on the dipstick and in the oil filler cap? If the answers to those are 'no', then forget about HGF.

Start by trying to trace the source of the 'water'. Is it plain water or is it coolant? Sometimes rainwater can play cruel tricks.

Simon

__chris__ · 8th February 2013, 10:19

Thanks for the info so far.

Some background, I have had coolant loss on & off since November but never had any mayonnaise.

First I steam coming from the radiator hose where the T piece is. This turned out to be a hole in a worn out hose. This got replaced.
Then I had the T-piece snap while I was out one weekend. Got recovery truck home and had the metal t-piece fitted.
Then I had to replace the upper hose as I'd ripped it when I fitted the new t-piece.

I assumed all was OK and then the next day I had some 'steam' coming from under the bonnet and the temperature using the OBD was getting up to 104. Dropped to 97ish when I put the heater on. Got home a 1/4 of a mile later and looked under the bonnet and I could see small, regular drops of water at the bottom of the engine falling onto the ground. I assume there was also some falling onto a hot part of the engine causing the steam.

I let the engine cool down and a few hours later went to check the coolant levels. I undid the pressure cap and heard a whoosh - I assume this is normal ? The coolant level was at the Max point.
Called mechanic with result as per previous post.

However.... I have noticed an occasional stuttering at start up recently along with white exhaust emissions. I had put the exhaust down to me changing the back box to a non-standard stainless steel item that I got from Ebay, but now I'm wondering from what I've read on this forum if this isn't pointing to inlet manifold problems.
Only problem is, I don't actually understand what the implications of this are, how I would check or how I would fix it.

Any help much appreciated.

T-Cut · 8th February 2013, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by __chris__

I have noticed an occasional stuttering at start up recently along with white exhaust emissions. - - - but now I'm wondering from what I've read on this forum if this isn't pointing to inlet manifold problems. Only problem is, I don't actually understand what the implications of this are, how I would check or how I would fix it.

These are typical symptoms of a failed IMG. The coolant gets into cylinders 1 and/or 4 causing a lumpy startup an steamy exhaust. Inspect spark plugs 1 & 4 for a washed appearance and maybe pink stains (if OAT antifreeze is in use). The implications are on-going loss of coolant with the attendant risks (HGF not the least). Replacing the IMG is not that difficult and you should get the latest Viton type (part number:LKJ101110 http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-LKJ101110

TC

capese21 · 8th February 2013, 14:25

Show a mecahnic a R75 and without even lifting the bonnet he will diagnose HGF!! Clever people these mechanics.....

SD1too · 8th February 2013, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by __chris__

.. the temperature using the OBD was getting up to 104. Dropped to 97ish when I put the heater on.

Chris,

Believe it or not, the radiator fan won't trigger until 104 degrees on the 1.8 engine. Check that it is working properly by starting the engine from cold and pressing 'demist'. This will force the radiator fan to run. You'll probably need to listen at the radiator grille to hear it. Let us know the result.

Quote:

I let the engine cool down and a few hours later went to check the coolant levels. I undid the pressure cap and heard a whoosh - I assume this is normal ?

Yes, that's a good sign that the system is holding pressure.

Nothing you've said suggests HGF to me. I recommend that you follow T-Cut's advice regarding the inlet manifold gasket.

Simon

seancar · 8th February 2013, 15:43

we do alot of warranty work and with all the company's they will only pay for headgasket labour and skim. they will not pay out on cambelt kit. you do not have to have engine stripped to test head gasket. its a simple test to see if any hc in the water takes 10 mins to do. it could be one of hundred reasons it lost some water. its not always the headgasket. i am not saying its not hg but dont be pushed into thinking its the hg by garage. they all just jump to the head gasket with out checking.

chris75 · 8th February 2013, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by __chris__

I let the engine cool down and a few hours later went to check the coolant levels. I undid the pressure cap and heard a whoosh - I assume this is normal ?

As already said , this is normal , so long as the engine is still warm (ish) .
However , if you wait and go back the next morning when the engine is stone cold and then you get a whoosh then this is a known indicator of HGF on these engines . It is the same on the 1.4 and 1.6 versions . The system appears to be able to hold pressure that has been created by the exhaust gases leaking into it without them leaking back when the engine cools

Based on observations of numerous cases and other discussions on this forum.
It's an easy check to make and may help your diagnosis

7th February 2013, 16:22	#1
__chris__ Avid contributor 2003 MG ZT 190+,(2005 Facelift R75 1.8T SE Conny now consigned to be a donor car) Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Sidcup Posts: 149 Thanks: 34 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Warranty Claim I spotted some water drops leaking from the engine casing this morning and my trusty mobile mechanic came over this afternoon and pressure tested the system and thinks that it may be a Head Gasket failure. The warranty I bought with the car last September excludes damage caused by all sorts of things like neglect, failure to maintain in a roadworthy condition etc. and specifically mentions "the effects of overheating..." In order to get a claim approved, I will need to pay for the car to be stripped and the cause of the HGF diagnosed. So I'm wondering, what sort of thing might my mechanic need to be looking for as possible causes for the HGF that will allow me to get a succesful claim and therefore the cost of the repairs met?

7th February 2013, 20:24	#3
T-Cut This is my second home Rover75 and Mreg Corsa. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin) Posts: 21,753 Thanks: 341 Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts	Well assuming you haven't overheated the engine due to the coolant leak, then the gasket work done previously (I would assume), hasn't been done properly. A badly prepared head (eg warped) will not seal correctly and will leak without HGF. On that basis the warranty conditions have been complied with and the gasket should appear OK. If it has 'blown' in the traditional way, then overheating is the most logical cause and the warranty is void. I'd say this could be a very difficult thing the prove and may depend on the seller's good will. Of course, it may not be leaking from the head gasket. The inlet manifold often leaks externally and this can dribble into the head join giving a false impression of the source. TC Last edited by T-Cut; 7th February 2013 at 20:26..

8th February 2013, 10:19	#5
__chris__ Avid contributor 2003 MG ZT 190+,(2005 Facelift R75 1.8T SE Conny now consigned to be a donor car) Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Sidcup Posts: 149 Thanks: 34 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks for the info so far. Some background, I have had coolant loss on & off since November but never had any mayonnaise. First I steam coming from the radiator hose where the T piece is. This turned out to be a hole in a worn out hose. This got replaced. Then I had the T-piece snap while I was out one weekend. Got recovery truck home and had the metal t-piece fitted. Then I had to replace the upper hose as I'd ripped it when I fitted the new t-piece. I assumed all was OK and then the next day I had some 'steam' coming from under the bonnet and the temperature using the OBD was getting up to 104. Dropped to 97ish when I put the heater on. Got home a 1/4 of a mile later and looked under the bonnet and I could see small, regular drops of water at the bottom of the engine falling onto the ground. I assume there was also some falling onto a hot part of the engine causing the steam. I let the engine cool down and a few hours later went to check the coolant levels. I undid the pressure cap and heard a whoosh - I assume this is normal ? The coolant level was at the Max point. Called mechanic with result as per previous post. However.... I have noticed an occasional stuttering at start up recently along with white exhaust emissions. I had put the exhaust down to me changing the back box to a non-standard stainless steel item that I got from Ebay, but now I'm wondering from what I've read on this forum if this isn't pointing to inlet manifold problems. Only problem is, I don't actually understand what the implications of this are, how I would check or how I would fix it. Any help much appreciated. Last edited by __chris__; 8th February 2013 at 10:21..

8th February 2013, 14:25	#7
capese21 This is my second home MG ZTT 180 Sports Auto. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 18 Thanked 180 Times in 143 Posts	Show a mecahnic a R75 and without even lifting the bonnet he will diagnose HGF!! Clever people these mechanics.....

8th February 2013, 15:43	#9
seancar Banned 75 tourer and t4 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: bexhill on sea Posts: 4,428 Thanks: 278 Thanked 731 Times in 350 Posts	we do alot of warranty work and with all the company's they will only pay for headgasket labour and skim. they will not pay out on cambelt kit. you do not have to have engine stripped to test head gasket. its a simple test to see if any hc in the water takes 10 mins to do. it could be one of hundred reasons it lost some water. its not always the headgasket. i am not saying its not hg but dont be pushed into thinking its the hg by garage. they all just jump to the head gasket with out checking.