Club going around in circles!
 

Hi.
The recent release of TOAF seems to be putting the club in disarray!
I have to put my hands up and say yes I am involved too.
It's now getting out of hand, there are so many threads about TOAF in many different guises.
Inevitably it all comes down to Trader fees and even weeks down the line we are still at the same position as at the start.

Some traders are not happy, the members are not happy, TOAF designers are not happy.
Some say TOAF bricks ECU's without proof, some say its great some say its dangerous etc etc.
When will all this stop and let us get back to enjoying our club and cars.

Now my personal view:
I think TOAF is good, I'd not pay for it though as it does have some little anomalies.
Traders fees are a grey area as they are not "Trading" and are not based in the UK, they do not "sell" a service in this country, If and when they do they should make a contribution to the club, extras that need to be paid for by members here directly due to links and written advice can be construed as Trading, that must then be backed up by paying their rightful use of this site by paying fees.

I resent folk knocking TOAF though as it is a decent effort, sadly some that have knocked it haven't even given it a chance or used it! It is what is called progress, T4 is an old system now and who on earth thinks it cannot be improved on must be living in the past.

I've made my comments but please please can we have our club back :D:D

Spot on Trevor

Unfortunately money is at the bottom of it all, and there is no one size fits all solution to the problem.

Well, it's certainly had a lot of free advertising lol

T4 may be old and been about for some time
But it's proven to work on our cars & kept many on the road
Also our cars don't change so why upgrade t4s

Stick to the devil u know in my apinion t4s have worked fine all this time.

The way the TOAF guys have approached this is totally wrong. From the outside looking in, they have been divisive and rude. It appears they want to disrupt the club. It would have been better to work in harmony with the club and it's traders because they would probably have had more support and through that a better product.

I'm no longer a Rover owner and yet I pay a subscription. So why can't a person providing a service not pay?

My views are simple really... as they arent charging or selling a product then why should they pay trader fees?

Traders on here sell things and make a profit, these guys did it for the good of the community, they made a program to benifit everyone and not themselves... surely thats contribution enough?
Working day after day on software (albiet not perfect) for others to use FOR FREE
They do charge for certain things yes so thats a grey area, but as for actual use of the basic program then i dont see an issue.
Personally from having a Audi i can safely say that i was gutted to have to pay £250 for a VCDS cable
I also have tuning gear which cost well over £400 for my Honda to tune OBD1 ecu's.
The software is free is is advertised on various clubs/pages without any payments being made.
Its the same with TOAF its free you cant honestly expect them to pay the club to talk about free software that the created in there own time to support a community that doesnt have free access to T4.

Its ok for us in the UK but everywhere else is very limited personally i think all the bitching should just stop... those going on about the money side of things totally miss the point, they arent in it to make money...

Anyway... my rant over.

So you still have Windows 3.1 & a CRT TV?
These are examples that work just as well as they ever have done but things can be bettered.
Take for example the use of discs on T4 & VT4, they are getting outmoded, get scratched and damaged, Toaf of course doesn't need discs.
Toaf will run on XP through to Win 10.
Toaf and of course VT4 doesn't need cumbersome interfaces either.

I have access to T4, VT4 & Toaf, Toaf is the one which is getting further development work, other than the addition of VT4, T4 is stagnant and we have seen that Toaf has seen hidden areas that T4 doesn't see.

Of course T4 is the preferred system but research and hard work from another direction can often surpass the original.

A separate TOAF section in Technical might be a good idea and all things TOAF can be kept together.

Blackrose

Hi.
I have been at the receiving end of Polish customers tongues and I accept the feeling of rudeness.
I will say that the same rudeness has to be due to their command of the English language or something in their culture as most of the ones I have come across eventually turn out fine.
I have a lot of Czech friends and initially they came across as rude but they are good friends and very generous.

Indeed.
Any derogatory remarks and posts should be removed.