caravan 13 pin plug, what are the consequences
 

I need to replace the cable from the caravan 13 pin plug to the internal electrics of the caravan. The car I am pretty sure is wired correctly but I have an issue with the caravan wiring

pin 9 permanent live is reversed with pin 10 fridge, I assume ignition live

pins 11 and 13 both earth are reversed

what are the consequences?

I guess non re 11 and 13 but what about 9 and 10?

Of course I dont know how the other end of the cable is wired. Where should pin 9 go as it is permanent live? Does it go directly to the leisure battery?

macafee2

Basically a flat battery if left for any length of time with the van connected to the car . Also potential to blow fuses depending on each circuit loading

Your electrics are operating the wrong way round with your fridge and relay energised all the time rather than only been energised once the ignition is switched ,
Your Permanent live normally operates the ATC if fitted and van 12v systems when relay energised by ignition live

Your earths if just earthed straight to the car body probably wont make any difference


https://caravanchronicles.files.word...ing-13-pin.jpg

thank you, I thought the same and years ago I suffered just as you say, a flat battery. I just needed confirmation of my thinking. I will now double check the two wires in the caravan. Unfortunately I am not sure what I'm looking for in the caravan but will give it a go. thank you Tourersteve

macafee2

Have you got a Manual with wiring diagram for your van

Has the caravan had some work carried out on the wiring for the wiring to be in the wrong orientation ?


My own caravan has the habitation relay as part of the power supply unit so all the wires from the 13 pin socket are distributed from there .

I assume you have tested your car permanent and switched live with a multimeter to confirm that they operate to PIN 9 Permanent live and PIN10 Switched Live . also have you confirmed that both earth pins have continuous earth as have read that PIN 11 can be a switched earth (Fridge)

Not knowing how your caravan is wired makes it harder to advise as you may be able to check your wiring by eliminating certain conditions and disconnecting wires in your 13 pin socket

Have you got ALCO ATC fitted as that should be fitted to your permanent .
It should operate as soon as the socket inserted ,
If that requires ignition it is the clue that wire should be switched to PIN 9 as the ATC will definitely be on the permanent live circuit

On a lot of vans the habitation relay is wired through the switched live and will knock out your vans 12v system on start up allowing the the switched live feed to operate only the fridge and charge the battery
If your 12v system is knocked out on inserting the socket it will indicate that the system is connected to the permanent live , but bear in mind that may be by design depending on manufacturer

You could also also disconnect your battery positive terminal and check when the lead has power to it by putting a multimeter from the positive lead to the earth lead of the battery This should only work with the ignition on , and possibly engine running

Hope some of this helps your investigation

Attached a typical habitation relay set up

Mate, some useful information in your post, thanks.
No ATC fitted
Yes tested pins 9 and 10 on the saloon for permanent and ignition live but my Tourer which I wired, deliberately has 9 and 10 as ignition live. The reason being I once left the caravan hooked up to the saloon overnight and in the morning the car had a flat battery. Once bitten, twice shy.

I will check the power supply for the habitation relay.
thanks for the diagram.
I will check the handbooks for a wiring diagram as you suggest.

macafee2

How old is your caravan what make , model is it . Habitation relays have been around for a long while now . The easy way to check when the relay activates and knocks the 12v out is just to put the interior lights on and see if they go off when the socket inserted or when the ignition switched on .
Obviously that is just a generic diagram but gives you an idea of how the system works
Looking at that system both 9 and 10 as switched live would work , but the caravan utilizes the relay as a switch for the permanent live anyway .
I know with the Alko ATC fitted it is advisable to disconnect the caravan socket if leaving overnight anyway

See how you get on

something like a 2013? Lunar Quasar 525.
ha ha connecting the car to the caravan to knock out the 12v, this all came about as the 12 core cable dragged on the ground and wore through 4 wires.
I'm in the process of replacing it. My new cable is not the same colours on all of its 12 wires and, for example, the caravan orange is thin, the new one is thick but I cant go orange to orange as I need a think wire for something else. I've ended up with something like orange to "pink green" and "blue red" to orange.

macafee2

Unfortunate but this happens and no doubt you will not be able to buy the specific cable Lunar use

If you look at your manual page 48 it confirms that until you switch on the ignition the habitation relay should not activate meaning if you just energise your van 12v battery and switch on the interior lights connecting the socket should not knock out your 12v power until the ignition is switched on . If this happens it will mean you have got your fridge circuit on PIN9 rather than PIN 10 and believe the fridge can draw up to 10 amps which will soon drain a battery

That was an interesting read, thank you for adding the page from the Lunar handbook. I read the PDF before I read what you posted. Your post confirmed what I thought I understood from the pdf.
I had thought just by plugging caravan into car the habitation relay knocked off the caravans 12v but it seems not from what both you and the pdf say.

Just as well my Tourer has both pins 9 and 10 as ignition live. I am not sure that without changing the 12 core I'd ever have discovered the caravan was wired or seems to be wired incorrectly. Servicing never picked it up but is it something that a service engineer would look at? Would a service engineer check the cars towing electrics?

Some years ago I did find one the the caravans 12v aux sockets was wired reversed but that was an easy swoop


thanks again the the Lunar page

macafee2

Servicing potentially could have picked this up with his test equipment but would say that a more in depth test will be carried out on the external lighting as a legal requirement
Is it possible that someone has actually changed out the 13 pin plug at some time .
As it stands you have belt and braces with running PINS 9 & 10 through a switched live which will protect your car battery while connected up

I would think you could probably sort the problem out by following the following steps

1, Energise interior lights with caravan battery .
2, Connect caravan to car (needs permanant live to do this )
3, If caravan lights go out (Relay energised) swap PIn9 to PIN10
4, If caravan lights stay on , switch ignition on to energise relay ,
5, If lights go out that means PIN10 correct
6, Once above correct disconnect caravan from car

To check PIN 9 permanent Live

7, Disconnect caravan battery ensuring both terminals are air gapped
8, Connect caravan to car Car should now power caravan lights etc without caravan battery
9, If not , switch ignition on , if lights work ,that would indicate the caravan is getting power from PIN10 .(This should not happen)
10, Disconnect car from van and reconnect caravan battery

step 8 should be your last step . unless some wiring is adrift in the caravan and would mean testing further .
Hope this makes sense . I'm interested to see what you find but all of the above can be done from the 13 pin plug
The last lunar I owned I actually swapped the 12s and 12n plugs to a 13 pin plug to suit the electrics on my car with no issues