WIP: Diagnostic Mode - Updated, Clarified and Simplified
 

Many members have asked about the Diagnostics Routine accessible via the trip button. There are umpteen links used to get this info, but the detail provided is either incorrect or confused. I've spent some time going over the various sections and managed to simplify a lot of it. The fuel gauge stuff was totally mixed up but thanks to an investigation by Jules this now makes some sense. The routine for correcting the OBC fuel consumption will allow the screen to give data exactly in line with manual estimation using the brim-to-brim method. If your driving regime remains unchanged, you should be able to drop the exercise completely. This requires practical verification.

(Verification not been confirmed to date: December 2021)

************************************************** ********************************
This is my revision dated 4 January 2021 with some comments added previously
************************************************** ********************************

To those who've already done so, or plan to copy/paste the following document onto YouTube, etc. or use it to demonstrate the technique in video format I say, please do the honorable thing and acknowledge who did the work and where it comes from. I will contact those publishing my work via the YouTube, etc. public comments system and request a simple acknowledgement. Many thanks, T-Cut
30 April 2017
************************************************** *********************************
All models, with or without the High Line/Onboard Computer, will display diagnostic mode on the lower (Trip) screen.

How To Use Diagnostic Mode

The following information originates from an old BMW document and may be ambiguous in parts due to differences in the MGR system. I've made the instructions easier to follow than the original. Any errors in this revised data are mine. Failure to activate the diagnostics routine is usually due to not pressing the button fast enough. If pressing is delayed for more than a second or so, it will revert back to the standard trip display. There are bits of it I don't yet understand, but most of the useful stuff is explained.

Enable Trip Screen Diagnostics:

a) Put key into ignition and turn it to position 1 (instruments activated).
a2) If you intend driving with diagnostic mode active, start the engine now.
b) Press and hold the trip reset button. This is the button sticking out near the speedometer.
c) Your LCD display will show "test 1.-"
d) Immediately press the reset button every half second until you get to "test 19.-". (19.0 allows access to diagnostic mode)
e) The display will now show alternating "Log 1 -on" / "Log 1 -off"
f) While it shows "Log 1 -off" press the reset button and. .
g) With no delay press within a half second (repeatedly if necessary) to get to the required section.
h) The screen will appear similar to the earlier one, but is a different series. Keep pressing every half second to select one of the following functions (there is no title on screen).

It's OK to drive the car with any particular diagnostic screen active (eg. coolant temperature). If it's displaying time, engine or speed related data, this will change in real time. DO NOT be tempted to swap between screens while driving! Turning off the ignition ends the diagnostic session.

1 Car, Engine and Cluster Data
1.0 VIN serial number
1.1 K-number
1.2 Cluster Part Number
1.3 Coding (04)/diagnosis (52)/bus index (10)
1.4 Week of manufacture (eg. 1200 = week 12)/year of manufacture (eg. 2000)
1.5 Hardware number (eg. 09) and Software number (eg. 11600 = 16.0) of IPK.
1.6 Injection Status-number of cylinders-motor number

2 Cluster System Test
2.0 Activates the gauge drivers, indicators and LEDs to confirm function.
When function 2.0 is selected, the instrument pack provides a check of the warning lamps, major and minor gauges, displays and illumination functions. The gauge pointers are driven through their full arc and back again to check operation. All warning lamps are illuminated to check that none of the LEDs have failed. All yellow and red pixels of the message centre are flashed on and off in a chequered pattern to check that all elements of the display are functional.

3 Service Inspection (SI) Data
3.0 Fuel Used (in liters) since last Service Inspection
3.1 Periodic inspection days; elapsed days (since last SI)

4 Momentary Consumption
4.0 Momentary fuel consumption in litres/100km (eg. 0145 = 14.5 litres/100km)
4.1 Momentary fuel consumption in litres/hour (eg. 0018 = 1.8 l/hr)

5 Distance Gone Consumption
5.0 Average consumption in litres/100km (eg. 082 = 8.2 litres/100km)
5.1 Calculate distance ( km) to refuel (momentary distance to go)

6 Fuel Level Sensor Outputs in litres (Fuel tank has left and right side sensors)
6.0 Fuel levels both (eg: 109330 means left half sensor = 10.9 litres; right half sensor = 33.0 litres)
6.1 Total tank level (eg: 0439 is 10.9+33.0 = 43.9 litres)
6.2 Indicated value with diagnostics: The Test Number (6.2) is preceded by 1, 2 or 3 (eg. 1-6.2 or 2-6.2 or 3-6.2)
If first digit is 1 - both sensors are OK. This is followed by three left signal digits, then three right signal digits.
If first digit is 2 - one sensor has an error. Side in error will display - - 0 . Functional side will show its three digits
If first digit is 3 - no sensor signal, no display. Probably - - 0 - - 0 (Needs confirming --- T-Cut)

EDIT 7 October 2019

Section 6
The following comments require a further update based on tests on Section 6 conducted by members during 2019. At this point, I haven't had time nor inclination to include this info, so the following is even more tentative.
************************************************** **************
Members who have had a go at this may have noticed that the routines for the fuel tank and sender units (Section 6) seem to be different from the instructions. Up to now, I hadn't ventured into the Test 6 part, but having now done so, I can report some observations.

Firstly, I think the instructions for Section 6 are wrong. I originally interpreted them from BMW documentation, from comments made on a BMW forum and from reports by members of the 75/ZT forums. In fact I now believe that the MGR version does not differentiate each sender's output, but simply displays an integral. It may well display a warning that one or both senders are faulty (the 1_6.2, 2_6.2 or 3_6.2 display), but more than that I now have doubts.

In my own case, the displayed figures under each of the Test 6 subsections were the total fuel content. This varied significantly in real time when the car was rocked side to side. This shows that the floats were responding to the changing liquid surface. The integral is given in litres. When I converted this to gallons and used the average fuel consumption shown by the OBC, the calculated range was identical to that shown by the OBC. This proves the figures are total content only.

I suspect the original instructions were basically what the BMW diagnostics system showed. The MGR version seems to have been simplified somewhat.

EDIT 4 January 2021
This note follows a forum post regarding the often reported erratic fuel gauge issue.

Fuel gauges are frequently said to show far less tank inventory than is known to be present. Sometimes, the gauge rises or falls for no obvious reason. The way the fuel gauge operates gets a lot of discussion. Some say there’s a calculation involving the current fuel usage rate that causes the gauge to show levels different from what’s known to be in the tank. The flowing thread suggests perhaps the gauge needs a periodic ‘software reset’ to re-establish its accuracy. Perhaps there’s a bug?

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d.php?t=310283


Disclaimer: You conduct a Software Reset at your own discretion, but we do need more data on what this option does.

***************************************

7 Temperatures and Speeds
7.0 Coolant/Engine temperature - changes every whole degree Centigrade. (eg: 021+ is 21°C)
7.1 Ambient/Outside temperature - changes every 0.5 degree Centigrade. (eg.125/130/135 is 12.5°/13.0°/13.5°C)
7.2 Engine speed / Current (RPM)
7.3 Vehicle speed / Current Speed (km/hour)

8 Values of 7.0 to 7.3 in HEX form (Unknown)

9 Battery
9.0 Battery Voltage (eg: 137 = 13.7v)

10 Country Code
This is just a list. There may be a code displayed for each, which I don't have. I haven't physically checked.
0 = Germany
1 = Great Britain
2 = USA
3 = Italy
4 = E (?)
5 = Japan
6 = France
7 = Canada
8 = Australia/ ** (?)

11.0 Unit code (?)

12.0 Not used

13.0 Gong test
This tests the lights on gong which chimes when you open the door. The same gong is used in the speed limit warning for models with the trip computer.

14.0-14.4 Error memory: if 000000 no error in memory

15.0 - 18.0 not used

19 Lock Status: unlocks functions in range 1-18 and 20.
19.0 Log1-On/Log1-Off Locks/Unlocks diagnostic regime: To access, press button when Log1-Off shows.
You've already done this section to access the data anyway.

20 Correction Factor for OBC Fuel Consumption Display
20.0 The Factor is displayed numerically in the form ABCD (Thousands/hundreds/tens/units)
The formula for the Factor = Indicated Consumption x 1000 / Measured Consumption

For more details on this see below.

21.0 Software Reset
Resets some OBC settings. Primarily an IPK factory reset in the event of a configuration error. It also resets any error in the ambient temperature sensor value and resets the Correction Factor to default in the fuel consumption calculator (Section 20). No significant changes will be brought about by a Software Reset.


EDIT 29 December 2021

The Software Reset function may be effective in fixing electronic 'glitches' in the fuel gauge, as evidenced by a single report (thus far) described here: https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d.php?t=310283


*********************

This completes the description of Diagnostic Mode functions.
If applicable, you may now drive the car with the selected display showing for the duration of the journey.

Turn off the ignition to exit Diagnostic Mode.
********************


More on the Section 20: Correction Factor for OBC Fuel Consumption Display

The indicated consumption should be established by running the system for several hundred miles, preferably a thousand or so without resetting the OBC at any stage. The longer you allow the un-reset system to operate, the more 'accurate' is the indicated consumption. Determine the measured consumption using brim-to-brim calculations over a similar period.
Now calculate your more accurate factor using the formula above. These digits are what you insert for ABCD.

Press the button to show 20.1 which allows the units (D) to be set.
The display counts down from the current figure and cycles until you press at the required one.
This sets it and the display will advance to 20.2

20.2 This allows the 'tens' (C) to be set as above. When you press the set button, the display advances to 20.3

20.3 This sets the 'hundreds' (B) and then the 'thousands' (A). Each digit is set in succession by a single press.
After setting (A), the display advances to the next function (21.0)

Let's say that the display currently says you get 10km/l fuel consumption. However, you know from your brim to brim tests that it's somewhat lower than this. Let's say that every tank full of petrol (64.8 litres, or whatever you find it to be) allows you to travel 500km.

So the Measured Consumption is 500/64.8 = 7.72 km/l

Your computer is saying it's 10 ml/l so that's the Indicated Consumption.

The Correction Factor (using a calculator) is:

Indicated x 1000 / Measured
= 10 x 1000 / 7.72
= 1295 (forget any decimals)

So you replace the existing Factor with this one.
Go to test 20 and you'll see the existing Factor ('ABCD').
Change D to 5
Change C to 9
Change B to 2
Change A to 1 (if necessary) by following the routine described in the instructions.

If your display is in MPG, just use gallons and miles instead of litres and kilometres.

Now when you use the trip computer to display your fuel consumption, it will be much nearer the truth. Note that you must allow the computer to run a good while (1000km or 500 miles or so) without resetting it to get a meaningful result.

T-Cut

Thank you T Cut. That does help a lot.. :}
...

Thanks TC
(note to self to change any links to this version)
TC OBD Dash diag 1.1 :o

Sorry, don't mean to muddy the water, but I did the engine coolant temp test this morning like this:

Hold trip reset, key in to pos' 1, select test mode, start car - drive!

Test worked OK and I got a result.

Guess I'm saying, does it matter if you start the car before the test mode is selected or can it be done either way or have I just broken my car?

Cheers,

Simon.

Hi T.C.,

Good move; an update was well overdue! Here's one thing I have found out.

My car doesn't behave exactly like this.
First of all, 20.0 merely shows the current correction factor.
20.1 allows the units (first digit (4)) to be adjusted, but the display counts down not up. When a selection has been made the display will advance to 20.2.
20.2 sets the tens (second digit (3)).
20.3 sets the hundreds (2) and thousands (1) digits. There is no separate 'store' function.
Other cars may differ, but that's how mine behaves.

Simon.

Nicely clarified TC.:bowdown:

Depends what tests you want to run................

Engine needs to be running if you want to monitor Test No 9 : Alternator Output. 14 - 14.5 Volts

No need for engine to be running:
If you want to test the battery output on it's own for Volts drop with a load on it ie:
With Headlamps and Blower motor on
12 Volts heading towards 11 Volts will be observed.

Test no 6
No need for engine to be running for fuel level & sensor monitoring.
Etc Etc.

Test 7.3
Not only does the engine need to be running but the Vehicle has to be in motion for this reading.

No hard & fast rules here, just think about what test you are trying to do & why.

Found a handy site to convert litres per100km to mpg

http://www.convertworld.com/en/fuel-...er+100+km.html

Hope it helps.

nice work! truly.:bowdown: two questions though, if i may
could you explain 20 in layman's terms??? i have no idea what all that means:confused:

my 1.8t auto gave 5 codes for which i find no info. is there a list of codes or someone i can ask? none of the error codes are "p" codes....

Spot on TC :D

Thank you.

Which bit is unclear? Is it working out your new factor or determination of the measured consumption figure?

These codes will be bespoke MGR ones. Without a T4 or similar high end reader, you'll not find the answers. Ordinary code readers will only answer the few generic (common to all) codes. I'm afraid the rest remain a mystery to us mere mortals.

TC

My marker IPKDM

basically everything. my trip computer is telling me i get 10km/l and i drive 500km before empty tank. thats great if my dearest had a 50litre tank. but it has a 65litre tank and it takes 60 odd litres to fill so i think threres something wrong??? what are the 4 digits for? how do i calculate what to enter there? (sorry, i dont think in miles and gallons...:))

i dont think this country ("repuplic" of south africa) has a t4 machine. the one ive seen at what i belive to be the last dealer looks shockingly similar to a generic carman thingy... can i ask a dealer in the uk to look it up or must the car be showing those errors for him to know what they mean?

thanks mr tc

OK here's what you do. I'm assuming here a 'full' tank is 64.8 litres. You will know better than me. Just note the actual amount when you do a brim to brim excercise.

You actually travel 500km on this amount. Again, get the accurate distance from your brim-brim runs.

So the Measured Consumption is 500/64.8 = 7.72 km/l

Your computer is saying it's 10 km/l so that's the Indicated Consumption.

The Correction Factor (using a calculator) is:

Indicated x 1000 / Measured = 10 x 1000 / 7.72 = 1295 (forget any decimals)

So you replace the existing Factor with this one.
Go to test 20 and you'll see the existing Factor ('ABCD').
Change D to 5
Change C to 9
Change B to 2
Change A to 1 (if necessary) by following the routine described in the instructions.

Now when you use the trip computer to display your fuel consumption, it will be much nearer the truth. Note that you must allow the computer to run a good while (1000 km or so) without resetting it to get a meaningful result.

I suspect a dealer would prefer to have the car hooked up to do the diagnosis. Since they charge a lot for doing this service, I can't see anyone willing to simply tell you over the phone/email, etc.

You might try Keith Alexander (user name 'Keith'), he has a T4.

TC

My Quick find marker = IPKDM (IPK Diagnostics Mode)

thank you for explaing it so clealy. even i understand now:D will do a couple more brim to brim fills and do the calculations. although getting "10l/100km" urban is very nice in an 1.8 auto the size of a rover75...

i'll track down mr keith and appeal to him for help. would love to know whats wrong with my beloved

again, thank you for your help:}

"Spoke" with TC and he has mentioned that this is an "on-going" project. As he discovers more, he will post. So WIP..... ;)

HI TC
Thanks great work indeed this is what makes this forum the sharing of knowledge, i will have to get to grips with this over the weekend once it stops raining, as i need to know at what temp the fan is kicking in at on low speed, Arctic.:bowdown:

Post #1

This is my revision dated 22 March 2013.

Nice to see a good bit of WIP :bowdown::D:D Sorry I missed it at the time :o

I suspect E is Espana, Spain

Hi T-Cut,

Good work.

I have used your instructions to check all the lamps and dials in step 2.0 because the Left Turn Arrow does not show up when moving the direction indicator lever down.

The test shows that everything but the Left Turn Arrow lamp is OK.

But - since I did the test the temperature and tachometer readings stay on zero and the daytime running light does not work.

When I test them in step 2.0 all the dials work.

I have checked the three instrument pack 5A fuses and they are OK.

Have you seen this before?

What also puzzles me is that the VIN is shown as _13354 and not 133549.


Best Regards from Denmark

Thanks T-Cut just what I needed. Car running at 48 degrees on coolant. New stat required. Question is now OEM or in top hose.

I've just done the top hose mod with a renault 5 stat that you can get from DMGRS, much easier and cheaper to get too than the OEM stat and far cheaper. Did the trick now running at operating temperature again and gained 8 MPG in the process! Even if its temp, its worth a shot! mind you mine is a diesel! if yours is the unleaded rover powerplant, than the stat is not that hard to get to and if a hour job (thats what I heard on this forum....)

There's been a couple of reports that replacing the diesel OEM stat with another OEM one is likely to follow a similar deterioration over subsequent months. At least the in-line system is easy to replace if that stat fails.

TC

Hi T-CUT
If you were to do this mod

Do you leave the original thermostat in position even if it's working correctly
Does the engine run ok with two thermostats fitted (if the answer is yes to the first question)
Thank you
Regards
Steve

Yes, the original stays put.
EDIT: Of course if it was working correctly, there'd be no need for the modification. The problem is they start opening prematurely, so preventing the engine warming to the correct running temperature (around 90C or so)

As evidenced by hundreds of owners with the in-line system, yes it works just fine. There are lots of threads going into the details if you need more.

TC

Inline
 

Hi TC
Thank you for your reply
Mine doesn't appear to get above 80 degrees but I don't know enough about the diesel to comment.
Regards
Steve

The OEM diesel stats originally open at 88C nominal, but over time start opening earlier. I'd say yours is starting on that path and an in-line one could make a difference.

TC.

Hi Steve,
When the diesel CDT is running at normal temp, your gauge needle will be at the 9:0 o-clock position.
Mine needs doing, keep putting it off, my needle is around the twenty to position.
Ken. :Holly2:

That tells to it's at 75C or higher. It doesn't tell you if it's optimal (90C). Only the diagnostic routine or a proper temperature gauge will do that.
Remember 'normal' on the gauge means anything from 75C to 115C, so it's basically useless.

TC

I see.......appologies :icon_lol:
Ken :Holly2:

Not needed! The temperature gauge gives a false sense of security to the vast majority of owners, so knowing that it tells you very little is a useful thing to know.

TC

Midscale only means it's 73 deg C or above.
Once it gets to 116 deg C the needle will suddenly jump up to max and overtemp red Led will illuminate

That's how the gauge is designed.
Possibly so the driver will suddenly notice it.
Pants design if you ask me :xmas-smiley-024:

I have Torque on my ZT CDTI and this gets to 76C and stays there (last month)...

12 degrees too cool in that case and it will be costing you in performance and fuel .
Get the stat done :xmas-smiley-024:

I think your finger slipped on the keyboard Jules. :) Just so that everyone is clear on this, it's 75° C as T-Cut confirmed a couple of posts ago. Thanks.

Simon

After reading some of the threads in the forum I was beginning to wonder about the condition of the cooling system and fan on my car, and subsequently found this thread.

Firstly, a big thank you to TC for providing such a detailed documentation on the diagnostics. It's great to know that so much information is available, once you know how.

I was concerned to read that the temperature gauge sits at the nine o'clock position irrespective of the temperature from 75°C upwards. It had lulled me into a sense of false security till I read that, as mine climbs from cold to the nine o'clock position and doesn't move. It does not appear to be of much use at all.

Thanks also to Jules for the above. Mine hasn't done that yet. (Breathes a sigh of relief!)

I'd have hit the thanks button, but there isn't one on my screen.

Jim

(There is one now, so thanks to whoever fixed it.)

Brilliant thread here thanks to member Versus pointing it out to me :bowdown:


Can I ask:
7 coolant / engine temp
(A) is this just for coolant (no temp reading for engine oil)?
(B) what temps should I be looking out for?
(C) have this displayed whilst driving I assume?


9 battery
(A) what voltage should I be looking out for?


Thanks

About 12V with the ignition on but engine not running, 14.0-14.2V with the engine running.

Can't answer about the temp as I have a diesel

V6 cooling
 

(A) Yes (correct).
(B) During forward motion low to mid-nineties. Creeps up to 100° when stationary and slow speed fan should then reduce it to 96°.
(C) You can, yes.

Simon

It's covered in Step a) and a2) in the Guide.

TC

On my diesel this wasn't quite the same.

I had an airlock causing my diesel to overheat a mile from work. I noticed as the heater was freezing cold, so activated the ipk display. At 105° the needle went to roughly 47 mins past (ie just over 9 'o' clock) then went to about 8 mins to 12 just as I arrived at work when the display read 120°:eek:. My fan is obviously kaput but it didn't illuminate the warning light. Air lock now sorted and now saving for a new fan.

Mine look OK (engine running)??? :shrug,:


7. Coolant temp
Before fan on:
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...pstw4w3f7e.jpg

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...psitatpza3.jpg

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...pszpyzucyd.jpg


After fan on:
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps5jfdue0w.jpg






9. Battery charging
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...psdqscxhqz.jpg

Your battery charging is OK Wayne, but your coolant shouldn't be getting as high as 107°C.

Have you performed the 'demist test' to check your slow speed fan?
Have you got a 2 speed with resistor or a 3 speed system?

Simon

:eek::eek::eek:

First i got a boot leak (3 days into my ownership) :(
Now this - argggghhhh!



Thanks Simon
Whats a demist test?

I thought i read that the 2.5 v6 dont have a 2 speed fan - so i have a 3 speed fan?

Or do i need to look thru my front bonnet grille to look for the silver resistor for 2 speed fan (or is that the cabin air vent grille)?

Where have you been Wayne? :D It's mentioned virtually daily!

1. Start the engine from cold.
2. Press the windscreen demist button on the air con. control panel.
3. Get out of the car and walk to the radiator grille. Is the fan running?

Early V6 had 3 speed fans, most made after approximately 2002 had 2 speed.

10/10 :D :bowdown:

Simon

Thanks Simon!

Will do tomorrow now!

The last i checked the fan was it comes on frequently on, then off, on then off...
Mines 03 reg...

Will report back tomorrow (or tonight)


I was hoping to do the mods one at a time over the year - looks like i need to do em all in one go and ASAP! :eek:

OK
I think my 03 MG has the 3 speed fan (no resistor):
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...pslzmqwupf.jpg

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...psurrpfrot.jpg




OK
With coolant at 107 degrees

With demist test (air con on, engine on, fan kicks in 20sec or so, stops, kick in 20sec, stop,.....)

And no resistor in my fan



1. Does my car have an issue?
2. If so what are options (get new fan)??? :shrug:

You've lost the slow speed but medium and fast are still working. If you're DIY-minded you can renew the motor brush responsible for beer money, but you must do it soon.

Simon

Just for your info.
My v6 2.5 auto only has a two speed fan.
Temp is around 90 to 93 when movin
When stopped fan will kick in from around 100c sometimes it's 105c


Steve42

Deffo not DIY minded!
Will have to take to garage!



What built date is yours Steve???

Mine is built 15 Dec 2003 - but reg in Jan 2004




So should I take mine to a local garage?
T4 bigRuss (60mins round trip)?
Or Trikey in hull (3 he round trip)?

:shrug:

Definitely not.
A much better idea.

Simon

Sorry if I have hijacked from OP...


Did a little research.
If my 3 speed fan need bushes doing ...

Would it be more cost effective to replace the whole lot with a gold resistor 2 speed one?


Cheers

The expense lies in the labour charges with both options. A garage will fit a new MGR 2 speed system with silver resistor and charge you a lot. If you get hold of a used unit with gold resistor and fit it yourself, it will be much cheaper. Brush replacement is really a DIY job (very cost effective) unless you send the motor to a good auto electrician.

Simon

Right searching for used 2 speed ones - anyone know going rate for these plus gold resistor? :shrug:



Other option is to buy new / fitted by Jules for £260
http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...&highlight=Fan
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...psv9ol4sok.png

Contact Arctic. He's the expert on these.

Simon

Hi Simon.
Thank you for your kind words, not an expert but have been known to take a few apart, also re-brushed a few both three speed and two speed with gold resistors, using your excellent link to the brushes.
http://www.engineeringcarbonproducts...on-brushes.php

Fitted a few in my time, maybe one at every meet, two at the last meet with the owners helping/doing most of the work under supervision :} that way the member gets to know his way round the car etc,I usually get a few ready for the seasons meets, but no where near as many as say a couple of years ago.

Thanks to both Simon s :bowdown:


Arctic - understood and thanks for the email :)

Exactly as I do Arctic, I had member Pinky replace his resistor at my house, along with the PCV and other little tasks. :}

If Wayne wants to venture to the deep south wilds of BD12, then I will get him to go through the whole diagnosis, there's even a breakers yard no too far away that is *VERY* reasonable.

Wayne, I see you have found Simon and Steve, you certainly are in good hands. :D

Simon got me on the right track, pushed me into dismantling the whole front of my ZT :eek: Steve then jumps in and saves me bacon with his incredible talent re-bushing the fan and sending one down quick smart. ;)

These guys are a superb duo. :bowdown:

Wayne, I'm sure you can refit one of Steve's refurbished fans yourself, you will save a few hundred pounds for sure.

Hi Andrew.
A nice offer and one I think Wayne should and may take you up on as i am way to far from him in the Midlands. :D

I can help him out with a fan should he so wish, we are in talks and it would be a straight fit, brushes have been checked and changed if needed along with the commutator, cowling already cut round the A/C union joints, therefore plug and play for him once he has removed his old fan once again with out disturbing the A/C, but if he can get hold of a two wire 2 speed from a breakers yard close then no posting involved :} but it would need the gold resistor fitting and the brushes checking to be safe in my opinion again not to hard a job just a little more time consuming.

He could always go for Revotec from Jules and maybe get your help to fit that so several avenues for him to go down ;)

http://i62.tinypic.com/vglsuf.jpg

BD12 anytime, Andrew!.
I work in BD5 during the day (but not this week)!



Thanks bud! :)

Er, who s Steve?

:D That bloke above who as added the photo's :D

I am too old for all these internet Postie's!


OK
Arctic = Simon
SD1too = Simon
???? = Steve

That's all clear, thank you Arctic, I will leave it up to Wayne which options he decides to go with.

I have found that >acolytes< seem to enjoy pulling scrappers apart, gives them a taste of what they are up against when they have to be careful.
I just point out how to do it and leave them to get their hands dirty, knuckles skinned etc ;)

First thing, as always, service and maintenance history records (if available) If not available then a polite call to the previous registered keeper can help.

You are never to old. :D

OK
Arctic = Steve :}
SD1too = Simon.

:D

Cheers Andrew!
I might be in touch sooner than later! :)



Lol
Thanks Wes :D

It's very kind of you to say that Westley; thank you. :angel:

Simon

Just had a go at this now and can't seem to get the test to come up, is it because I've got faults on the dash and that's why its not doing it do you think, or would that not matter?

Probably it is you, not pressing the button at exactly the right time - it is very tricky / fiddly and needs some practice. Just keep trying..

More likely, I'll have other go later. :grin:

Try this video instead. You might find it easier.

Simon

BIG thank you to T-Cut for this guide to diagnostics. Using it I have discovered my ZT CDTi is only reaching 72 degrees so the thermostat must be stuck open. Going to get a Renault 5 inline one installed....cheers! :bowdown:

Digital Temperature Readout
 

Put car into diagnostics mode and took it for a drive to Aberystwyth, over the mountains and back. Temperature went as high as 93 degrees at a couple of places but seems to run 86 - 90 most of the time. Just testing it out as it had a new head,gasket, stretch bolts, cam belt, and water pump before I purchased it. No loss of coolant and done over 400 miles this week including motorway. (At legal speed limit!) Don't half motor.

Are these the temperature ranges I should expect?

All around normal IMO. The 86C could be seen as slightly low unless you were free wheeling at the time.

TC

Thanks T Cut,
I pay to go up hill, but always go FOC downhill, best managed so far, over 5 miles in neutral from top of Dinas Mawddwy, down Dolgellau byepass, pay for petrol one way only! Bit of a chance going around the bend by Cross Foxes, have to avoid braking to carry on FOC.

Thanks for that, always gone downhill in neutral right from the age of 16, my Triumph Tigress had a neutral finder and pretty sure my Rover 90 had one as well. That's what my mum taught me to do! But if you are sure the 75 wont use petrol, will try to adjust my driving habits.

It is illegal to coast in neutral.

All modern ECU's shut the fuel supply off, when there is no demand for engine power and the engine speed is greater than tick over.

Illegal? Legal implies a law is broken - which one then?
Not saying you should coast - as said the engine switches off the injectors on overrun, provided its over 1800 rpm or so.

Quote
Coasting is not directly illegal or against the law. Circumstances of a situation however could lead to prosecution due to coasting. If you are involved in a car accident and you were coasting at the time by having the gears in neutral, if it was found that the coasting participated somewhat to the accident, it could be deemed that the driver had a lack of control of the vehicle due to coasting.

More on coasting:http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/what-is-coasting.html

At least it explains the 86C running temperature.

TC

Both my Austin Westminsters had a free wheel unit.

Not only did they coast in "neutral" if you took your foot off the throttle but you could change gear without using the clutch.-------------:D

Having physically checked :D I can confirm that my car does indeed show a code, it's "_ _ _ _ 5 1" which doesn't seem to relate to the above list at all! :shrug:
Can anyone shed any light on this?

Simon

I've just been through a cambelt rebuild (replacement heads etc) and been doing some snagging of various things since then. Without going through lots of detail, I've had a problem with no.6 cyl, now cured (I think, injector and pencil coil were replaced).I'm temporarily running on petrol (normally lpg but a minor fault was corrected today, not yet tested). I'm finding the cost of petrol staggering to what I'm used to! Some of that is due I'm sure to the cyl 6 misfire, and also due to the almost daily top up of fuel, due to tank and gauge problems which I'm now investigating.
Fuel gauge won't show over 1/2 full.
Regular running out of fuel (spare can in boot needed) when less than 1/4 full.
Petrol fumes after filling up. Either misfire related, or leak under seat? Not as bad now as I did have an exhaust leak, now sorted.
Diagnostic tests:
(6.0) --6.0 --0047
(6.1) --6.1 ------
(6.2) 1-6.2 --0039
Resistance checks on fuel pum socket under rear seat:
pins 5 & 2 (pump) 4 ohms
6 & 3 (n/s float) open circuit
4 & 1 (o/s float) 5 ohms

Now to me, that says the float needs attention (already rebuilt the o/s a few months back. That corresponds to the --reading in diagnostics. To me it also explains the max 1/2 tank reading. However, the pre-readings (ie 1, 2 3 )of float status don't seem to stack up. The lack of fuel in the tank is a concern
(to me); the engine stopped this morning and I put in a 4.5L can of fuel, I've done no more than 20miles or so, with a little test idling since changing the injector. I guess that is about right with the misfire I had?
I'm not exposing the tank today as its starting to get dark, a job for the morning. I'm also thinking I may have a problem with the transfer pipe between n/s & o/s; not sure if there are any electronics involved there? Maybe the o/c float can't send a signal to turn the pump on to transfer fuel? It will be interesting to see the level of fuel in the n/s.
I forgot to add, the engine stopped again, whilst idling, not surprising with the low fuel being indicated!

Stewrt

That's your problem Stewart. The two floats are wired in series so if one is open circuit it doesn't matter what the other one is doing.

Simon

Hello Stewart, one thing you might check for me when you go back to the tank, is to compare my old drawing of the pump connector with your actual setup.

https://i.imgur.com/z9XVToX.jpg

A recent discussion about tank floats suggests the drawing may be upside down with the 'open' end of the socket uppermost. I'd be grateful if you'd look at the socket layout and pin-out positions.
Many thanks.
TC

I'll post an updated one later in the week when I double-check the details.
I had a go at the filter float; checked evrything with a meter before popping it back into the tank. However something is still adrift so I'll have another look on Wednesday - good weather forecast here (61F)!
I'll also have a look at cyl 4 petrol injector, that comes up now and again with a fault, but on lpg it is fine, very smooth.
I have a brown flexible pipe on the filter in the tank, it doesn't go on to the ribs on the filter too well, any tips? I can't really warm it with a hairdrier!

An update on progress - I'm now confused!
Basically the float rheostat on the filter was beyond repair, so I sourced another. When I received it, it was an early model filter (non-orange clip_ so I didn't fit that, instead I just swopped the rheostat over (a quick soldering job).I also clamped the black hose to the filter with a hose clip as it had a tendency to fall off. I checked the operation of the float with a meter before inserting it in the tank; again after that I checked the resistance at the connecto on top of the pump. In both cases, the reistance was approx 40 ohms, with a small variation each side. When I turned the ignition on, the gauge showed 1/4 tank; tbh I expected more, but it is difficult to judge the level of fuel sitting in the tank, though both sides seemed similar.
However the strange result is from the diagnostics:
--6.0 = --0106
--6.1 _ = ------
2-6.2 = --0091

Any thoughts on this?
A quick drawing of my connections is attached.

I also came across a strange thing with the gasket - I'll keep this to a separate post.

In the last week or two, I've been playing with the filter in the tank.
Last year, or possibly the year before? I also was looking at both the filter and pump. When I finished, I fitted new rubber gaskets as I had a job to get them to seal, so they are at most 2 years old.
Last week I removed the filter, with no problems. Upon refitting, I could not get the ring to fit to the edge of the hole, it just seemed too large. In fact I sliced it, fitted it to the edge, and it was about an inch too long! With the excess cut off, it fitted snugly. I then ordered a new one from DMGRS, and over the weekend it was fitted - perfectly.
The work at the weekend saw the pump removed, with exactly the same fitting problems. I will be ordering another ring. Do they stretch in situ or what?

Hello Stewart, you're aware the rubber sealing ring will only fit one way up? They have a profile that fits over/under the lip on port collar.They certainly shouldn't swell to any significant extent. Certainly not enough to prevent the locking ring from engaging the tank port thread using hand pressure. Did you check out the various HowTos?
TC

Yes, aware of the right way of fitting the ring.
I don't want to get too involved in this ring fitting, I'm basically at a stage where that is sorted (almost finished) but is mystifies me. The more important thing that concerns me is my fuel gauge readings.
I had another go today, to try to get to the bottom of the latter fault. Really no change however - though I will add some notes on the ring at the end!
I started with the resistance measurements on the plug on the pump. Readings ok, both sides, fairly low around 15 ohms. This points to both floats working. I then pulled out the filter, reading on the float was a bit higher though it was out of the tank and wedged into position, but gave a reading. I then pulled out the pump as far as I could, with similar results. So I'm convinced the floats are working. Last time I actually moved the arms to check changes, but didn't bother this time. However I did a continuity check on each individual wire, from each float back to the plug, with no faults. Before putting items back in the tank, I looked inside with a torch, to check the floats would go in unobstructed. After refitting, I checked the resistances were as before, replaced the plug, and did the dashboard diagnostics; results as noted on the earlier post.
So I am stuck now. I do wonder if a reset of the battery is needed, as if the body(?) computer has a glitch. I'm loth to do it without advice though, in case something else plays up?

Now, the rings.
I mentioned earlier that the filter ring was 'stretched' and I temporarily cut an inch out, refitted it (perfect fit) then ordered a brand new one which also fitted perfectly. Well I took that ring out today - it was stretched! Compared to another unused one, it was bigger, I had to fit the new one to get it in! That is strange, I've even put the week-old stretched one in the freezer, just to see what happens. If it doesn't shrink, I'll get another new one for the pump side....but like I said, not getting bogged down about it.

Logic suggests it can't cause anything to get worse - but without doing it, you'll not know. It doesn't appear to be made of the corrct material. It's obviously swelling from the effects of petrol and really doesn't seem to be fit for purpose. Where did you source it? Is it branded 'BMW' like the originals?

TC

Weather is wet and cold today, so I'm not doing anything outside. However, This morning I put about £30 petrol in the tank as I didn't want to run out - I need it to start before it changes to lpg. The needle showed around 3/tank. When I got home, I disconnected the battery for about 3hrs. I've just put it back on; the gauge is still about 3/8 tank.
However, an interesting development in diagnostic mode.
--6,0 = --0NNN (I didn't record the digits), showing petrol in the rhs only?
--6.1 = ------
and then -6.2 --0NNN showing both sensors now ok (but still no dash reading from LH side? [this was 2-6.2 before}

I don't know what to make of that.


As for the ring, I'm not doing any work with that today. However;
1 - No markings on it at all.
2 - DMGRS supplied it (as with the others)
Its been in the freezer 24hrs. I don't think it has shrunk (didn't expect it to) and it looks bigger than 1 of the cut ones, but I haven't tried it in the car.

It's normal Stewart. My car is the same and always has been; no reading on test 6.1, and my gauge moves as expected.

Here is an extract from T-Cut's guide to the diagnostic mode (post no. 1 in this thread):
Simon

Thanks for that. Just to confirm the car model is a Connie SE, KV6, 53 plate Mk1.
I feel happier now. My main concern is that I have converted to lpg (been on the same system on 3 cars, since 2007, all installed by me the same way). Petrol is only used for starting, and if the lpg is not working for any reason (out of fuel, or a fault?). If I have a tank problem (with fuel low on one side) then petrol is not pciked up (been there before within the last couple of years). At the moment I do have a trace of petrol fumes, the only bit left to check is around the injector rail and that is to be done when I get at the thermostat tomorrow (weather permitting). I'm not sure whether there is a leak or it is a residue from work I have been doing - and I need to be sure! So if I do use it, on lpg, the petrol level shouldn't change, but I was getting the odd results. Yesterday the needle was right on the yellow light, so I put about £30 in - I guess that equates to the level I now have at about 3/8 full? I'm not used to using petrol and the prices! Since the battery reset yesterday, I'm happier, with the 1-6.2 result instead of 2-6.2.
I'm also thinking about a mod, when I know the state of play is right. As part of the lpg conversion, sometimes the fuel supply (from the tank) can be cut off when on lpg. I've never bothered, relying on the petrol injectors being taken out of use. If this mod was done, it would stop the injector rail beeing pressurised as well. I Know others have done it.

Fuel gauge senders
 

:}

I forgot to mention one other piece of evidence. As you know, the two senders are wired in series with just a single wire to the instrument pack. It is therefore impossible for the diagnostics to determine separate fuel levels in the left and right hand tank cavities. It is supplied only with the sum of the two.

Simon