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-   -   The CDTi that could have been... (https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=290290)

CivilSteve 18th November 2018 20:50

The CDTi that could have been...
 
If BMW had let MGRover fit a VNT turbo

http://i64.tinypic.com/307lxlw.png

Bottom end limited for the clutch & smoke, top end limited by the small injectors

Going to have to say, Xpower grey does look stunning in the right light :drool4:

http://i65.tinypic.com/33pd8yh.jpg

Comfortably Numb 18th November 2018 21:02

With standard gearing, i reckon it would start running out of puff at around 135 - 140mph.

rrobson 19th November 2018 06:46

Don't they start snapping cranks at that power??

CivilSteve 19th November 2018 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb (Post 2687800)
With standard gearing, i reckon it would start running out of puff at around 135 - 140mph.

No need to go over 70 though is there ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrobson (Post 2687836)
Don't they start snapping cranks at that power??

Wouldn't have thought so, it's the torque that would be an issue or torsional vibration. The peak torque on this is limited by the clutch and provided the DMF and crank pulley are in working order the torsional vibration wouldn't be a problem. We have these cars running 300lbft for some time now without fault.

This performed multiple loaded runs on the dyno from low end to top end. If it was going to fail it would have been then.

saxo1980 22nd November 2018 00:38

nope
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rrobson (Post 2687836)
Don't they start snapping cranks at that power??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb (Post 2687800)
With standard gearing, i reckon it would start running out of puff at around 135 - 140mph.



its an old wifes tale the crank will not snap :D fact

saxo1980 22nd November 2018 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb (Post 2687800)
With standard gearing, i reckon it would start running out of puff at around 135 - 140mph.

150 digital clock turns off for some reason :D

clf 22nd November 2018 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo1980 (Post 2688621)
150 digital clock turns off for some reason :D

Plausible deniability.

'Excuse me sir, do you know what speed you were doing?'

'Are no, the Speedo switched off'

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

saxo1980 22nd November 2018 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by clf (Post 2688633)
Plausible deniability.

'Excuse me sir, do you know what speed you were doing?'

'Are no, the Speedo switched off'

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

could ov been on rolling road maybe lol

trikey 22nd November 2018 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxo1980 (Post 2688695)
could ov been on rolling road maybe lol



Possibly... Mr XXX BHP

👍👍

Robson Rover Repair 22nd November 2018 16:11

As I said in the tuning group bottom end torque is shockingly bad. Would have been far better with a 320d turbo matted to a 1749 or even a hybrid 1749 that a 2256 regardless if its vnt or not running a stable boost than waiting on something much larger to boost up. I think it's great work mind you. Freelander td4 auto injectors next perhaps?

CivilSteve 22nd November 2018 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin_NI (Post 2688719)
As I said in the tuning group bottom end torque is shockingly bad. Would have been far better with a 320d turbo matted to a 1749 or even a hybrid 1749 that a 2256 regardless if its vnt or not running a stable boost than waiting on something much larger to boost up. I think it's great work mind you. Freelander td4 auto injectors next perhaps?

Tuning group?

It is certainly laggier than it would be with something more setup for the engine size. Just depends what kind of engine you wanted, this owner wanted a top ender with something more progressive. I prefer low end response but that's me. Still making 200lbft at 2000rpm so not exactly undrivable.

It's just a shame the clutch on these is so frail, ~280lbft was on the limit of the 10k clutch. These need some kind of uprated clutch kit if more folks are wanting to do these kinds of builds.

Haven't got a stock file for one of those to hand but guessing they have a higher flow rate? The stock ZT ones just couldn't get the fuel in quick enough

Robson Rover Repair 25th November 2018 10:22

Ah it wasn't you that shared it.

Yeah freelander manual flow a bit better and then auto flow even more again.

Comfortably Numb 25th November 2018 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin_NI (Post 2688719)
As I said in the tuning group bottom end torque is shockingly bad. Would have been far better with a 320d turbo matted to a 1749 or even a hybrid 1749 that a 2256 regardless if its vnt or not running a stable boost than waiting on something much larger to boost up. I think it's great work mind you. Freelander td4 auto injectors next perhaps?

And there's me thinking it was just my car! Never had a diesel that"bogs" as you let the clutch out without giving it more than 1,500 revs. I virtually have to do a rally start to pull out into the busy traffic on the main road past work. Perhaps I do need to see Brian about sticking some extra horses and torques in my engine!

CivilSteve 25th November 2018 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin_NI (Post 2689441)
Ah it wasn't you that shared it.

Yeah freelander manual flow a bit better and then auto flow even more again.

Are you sure they're higher flow? I've dug out a file for one and the injector duration tables hint that the freelander ones are smaller. At 70mm3 & 1450bar there's a 12.5% difference in duration

http://i64.tinypic.com/2r7lrti.png

530D injectors however are larger than ZT ones by about 12% again, so perhaps would be the better choice. So long as there's no fitment issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb (Post 2689628)
And there's me thinking it was just my car! Never had a diesel that"bogs" as you let the clutch out without giving it more than 1,500 revs. I virtually have to do a rally start to pull out into the busy traffic on the main road past work. Perhaps I do need to see Brian about sticking some extra horses and torques in my engine!

You should be able to pull away comfortably with minimal revs on a diesel. If you're struggling then could be a issue somewhere (boost leaks, injectors or the common MAF problems)

I can easily do a health check on your car and offer a much needed improvement over the original and generic tunes with the added bonus of adding in MAFless running if need be to avoid the need to replace the sensor.

BigRuss 26th November 2018 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin_NI (Post 2689441)
Ah it wasn't you that shared it.

Yeah freelander manual flow a bit better and then auto flow even more again.

You're thinking L series not M47 all the injectors on the 75/ZT/Freelander M47 use the same injectors. ;)

Russ

Robson Rover Repair 26th November 2018 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRuss (Post 2689677)
You're thinking L series not M47 all the injectors on the 75/ZT/Freelander M47 use the same injectors. ;)

Russ

100% definitely not. Has been many situations on the freelander forum about this guys throwing 75 injectors into td4s and running lean big style and chugging along using the various software to check them out as they go.

Big price difference between them which is why people tried them so many times with failure.

0445110030 are the 75 code on top, 0445110049 are the td4 manual and 0445110130 are the td4 auto ones.

I'm curious if there's an additional factor. I've often wondered where the 320d / 520d injector sits on the scale of it all. Perhaps its a coding and hardware combination for emissions.

And yes 200 sdi drop more fuel. Done my share of cars with those lol. Wife's streetwise and maf less remap goes wonderfully.

Comfortably Numb 27th November 2018 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by CivilSteve (Post 2689653)
Are you sure they're higher flow? I've dug out a file for one and the injector duration tables hint that the freelander ones are smaller. At 70mm3 & 1450bar there's a 12.5% difference in duration

http://i64.tinypic.com/2r7lrti.png

530D injectors however are larger than ZT ones by about 12% again, so perhaps would be the better choice. So long as there's no fitment issues.



You should be able to pull away comfortably with minimal revs on a diesel. If you're struggling then could be a issue somewhere (boost leaks, injectors or the common MAF problems)
I can easily do a health check on your car and offer a much needed improvement over the original and generic tunes with the added bonus of adding in MAFless running if need be to avoid the need to replace the sensor.

Thanks for the offer, Steve. I fitted a new (cheap) MAF sensor shortly after buying the car, which cured it of its stop/go intermittent kangarooing, since when it has run beautifully, with that one proviso, that you have to press the accelerator pedal slightly before you start letting the clutch out, as the electronic pedal sensor seems to take a second to pass on the message to the injectors - my previous Audi A4 was instant response - you could spin the wheels virtually from idle with the clutch out if you floored it. The Rover just says "Patience, young man; all in good time". I surely wouldn't expect any noticeable boost pressure at 1,000 rpm, would I? For a 114BHP CDT, it accelerates quite nicely once its rolling, cruises happily at 80 on its M6 commute, and returns 45mpg month after month. Now cashflow is less tight, I might take it to Brian in Newcastle, as I go there so much more than Manchester, but I'm getting used to its "relaxed" manner.


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