I think it's clutch replacement time...
 

Hello everyone,

I think my Tourer's clutch has sadly finally failed at 128k miles.

The pedal has been heavy ever since I've owned the car (bought it at about 65k miles, 8ish years ago) and I've been waiting for it to fail ever since so I'm happy it's lasted this long.

The symptoms are that the biting point has been getting lower and lower and now I'm having trouble getting it into reverse and 1st particularly, but it's not great getting into any gears really. It may also have been slipping very slightly on full throttle, going up a hill - not sure as it could have been momentary wheelspin on a wet/greasy road.

I'm looking at doing the job myself (I've done three or four clutch replacements over the years) and just wanted to get some advice about the best replacement parts to buy, and jobs to do while I've got it apart. I've read on other threads here that replacing slave and master cylinders is advisable so I'll probably get those and just do the job as a matter of course.

I will be checking the DMF and hope that it'll be OK but I guess at this age and mileage I should budget for replacing it.

What are the best brands and sources of components?

I'm just going to read the relevant Haynes sections now - I'm currently about 40 mins from home so hope that it'll last long enough for me to get home this evening! Looks like my weekend plans are on hold!

Thanks everyone, I really value all the help and knowledge on this forum.

parts from DMGRS should be ok. The Haynes manual is indeed very good for advice on the task.
when you come to remove the bell housing from the engine, have an A4 or a bit larger piece of card. Draw a circle on it and mark as best you can where the bell housing bolt holes are. As you remove each bolt, poke it through the card. The reason is the bolts are different lengths.
Good luck as this job is not for the faint hearted.

I replaced my drive shaft to gearbox oil seals as well as the drive shaft circlip. I'd be interested in others thoughts about replacing the circlip

macafee2

Cheers for taking the time to reply!

I've just ordered the premium clutch kit with hydraulics, gearbox/driveshaft seals and 2 litres of MTF from DMGRS.

Couldn't find the circlips at DMGRS and think I'll probably just re-use the ones that are already on it. Hopefully that's OK.

The Rover will live to fight another day!

Good luck with the clutch.
You should replace the slave at the same time as you will have to disturb it and its not V expensive when all the hasstle of splitting gearbox from engine is considered. The master cylinder can be done independently.
There is a good post somewhere on here about dong the clutch change without taking the sub frame out or the whole gearbox. Bit of a fiddle but saves disturbing the exhaust and steering rack etc.
Back bleeding from the bleed valve to the master (with the master top off and rags to catch what comes out of the reservoir seems the easiest to me. I have a piece of hose and a pump oil can to push the clutch fluid in. Seems to work for me.

Hi YHT,

Thanks for your reply and yes indeed, I'll be replacing both slave and master cylinders.

I have spent a few hours today with my dad, disassembling as directed by Mr. Haynes. I preferred to do it the long way, by removing the subframe, exhaust and steering rack as I wasn't too confident I could replace the clutch and test the DMF with the other method.

One of the worst job was getting the starter motor bolts undone - they were extremely tight.

Unfortunately Mr. Haynes lead us up the garden path and only mentioned undoing the driveshaft retaining nuts in the hubs after I'd already removed the subframe and lower control arms. Not an easy job! That should have been one of the first jobs while the car was still in one piece on its wheels.

Ah well - I'll know for next time!

I've decided to remove the entire driveshaft, hub, and suspension strut as one piece instead of separating the driveshaft from the hub. Unfortunately I didn't have my ball-joint separator with me so I'll sort that when I go back to my parents' house tomorrow.

Hopefully by the end of tomorrow, the driveshafts will be off, along with the gearbox.

A few pics:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e85fd15c_k.jpg
Our patented 'box' method for keeping track of the bolts we removed


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...93f5bc0a_k.jpg
As I left it this evening.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5ba72a1f_k.jpg
Subframe removed.

Oh - quick question: Haynes says that I need to replace the subframe bolts rather than re-using them. Is that true?

In a word, NO.

As well as labeling the bolts, I labelled some of the places the bolts went to. Good on you for taking this on, it is a big job.
The hub nuts you may be able to swop with each other as they could very well stake at different locations.

good luck

macafee2

Cheers for the replies gents. Re-used bolts it is then!

It certainly is quite a big job (thanks for the encouragement!) and this kind of thing can be daunting but it was make or brake for the Rover as if I didn't repair this myself it would have been time for a new car. Besides I enjoy working on cars with my dad and we've done quite a lot of little car-related projects together.

Probably the most involved was swapping the 1.6 auto engine, gearbox, suspension, wiring loom, pedal box, gear selector etc, out of my Vanden Plas Maestro and all the parts from a very rusty MG Maestro 2.0 EFI in instead.

I still have that car and it's a joy to drive - or at least it was until I laid it up. I really must get it going again. We did the clutch on that, but it was a lot easier when the engine was out of the car, on the ground.

I'll post an update tomorrow.

Good news - Dad and I spent a couple of hours today with the Rover and managed to finish the disassembly job.

Removing the whole front suspension assemblies instead of trying to undo the hub nuts and just remove the driveshafts was a lot easier. Splitting the gearbox off the engine was also a lot easier than expected and it was soon lowered to the floor.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c62dd158_b.jpg

I had a bit of a re-think over night and decided not to risk re-using the DMF. I didn't fancy doing the job again any time soon, so I've ordered a replacement which will be with me on Tuesday. Better safe than sorry I think!

We're all ready for reassembly now, just need the parts so I'll continue the saga when we resume early next week.

Smashing work (especially labelling all of the bolts - takes time, but very much worth it) and thank you for your order!
Hopefully the re-assembly goes nice and smoothly. :)

These aren't a fun job at all, and to be honest are the reason I picked an automatic 75 - with my back being the way it is (at the tender old age of 34...) I couldn't do a clutch change myself these days.

Give us a shout if you need a hand with anything else,
Mat

Interesting post, keep the pics a reports coming. 🍿

Thanks for the replies chaps - and for the parts, Mat.

I never want to do this job again! It's been pretty hardcore - even things that should have been simple have been a right pain in the neck. Getting the new master cylinder in is a job that seemed like it should take about 20 minutes, but actually took over 2 hours by the time we'd routed the copper pipe and re-seated the outer grommet.

Today's job was getting the gearbox back on and it took most of the day - not an easy job lying on your back, working on the car while it's on axle stands. In the end, we attached a chain to to the top of the box using the bolt holes for the top mount, then slung a rope through the chain and used a block of wood across from the slam panel to the suspension turret to brace it on.

My dad held that in place while I got under the car, gently rested the gearbox on my arm (it's actually not that heavy) and then I was able to lift it up and get it seated correctly on the end of the engine. It was a bit of a lump to bench-press, but not actually that bad.

I feel like we're on the winning end of things now - I've got to torque the engine to gearbox bolts up first thing tomorrow, then it's time to get the subframe back in place.

I'm hoping to have it all back together tomorrow so I can get the wheels aligned at the weekend. Apart from the subframe, it's all stuff that I've had apart before so I know how it goes back together.

One other thing I have to do is fill the master cylinder with brake fluid and then bleed the clutch hydraulics. I'm wondering if I can squirt it back up the pipe into the master cylinder and then quickly screw the quick-release union on, prior to bleeding. I guess it's not *that* bad a job to fill the master cylinder inside the car and just operate the pedal a few times.

Wish me luck!

The video I made this morning, prior to wrestling the gearbox:

https://youtu.be/R_WrUzUnMU4

Not sure if anyone is still reading, however, the good news is that today I got most of the parts back on the car - it was fun getting the subframe back on single-handed while my dad was busy at the dentist!

Tomorrow I'll be putting the starter motor back on and bleeding the clutch hydraulics, followed by checking the torques on all the bolts and fitting the rest of the miscellaneous parts such as the battery box, engine cover, undertray etc. then it's off to the tyre place for a wheel alignment.

I'll report back when I'm victorious, hopefully some time early tomorrow afternoon.

A good video and some very good pictures previously- once you get the car back together any chance of pictures of the old parts - it will be interesting from my point of view to get an idea of the general wear and tear of the used parts.

I squirted from the blled valve back to the master cylinder; seems OK for several months. A rag under the master cylinder and the cap a bit loose to allow the air out.

Cheers for that info!

I was going to give it a try, but have fallen at the first hurdle! I left the pipe disconnected in the engine bay, without the non-return valve fitted and then filled the reservoir of the master cylinder, but try as I might, I couldn't get it to pump fluid.

I've taken it off the car and compared old with new, and my old master cylinder pumps a good squirt of fluid, but try as I might, the new one refuses to.

My thinking is that I may have a defective part, but not being an expert in such matters (this is the first one I've changed) I am not sure...

Rather frustrating as the rest of the car is more or less back together.

Oh Dear is the comment that should get through the editors but read stronger feelings.At least the master cylinder is a bit easier than the slave. Good luck.

Thanks for the commiserations - oh dear is more or less what I said, haha.

Here's the video I made this evening, showing the master cylinder problem, and the condition of the old clutch components:

https://youtu.be/KrSqTF0ZcFU

Great work.

Thank you for sharing your clutch replacement experience, a lot of good info in your posts and video which are very useful.

Tommy :-)

You are doing a great job, this is a lot of work you are doing, well done


For anyone else removing or putting the sub frame back, a tip I was given for both lowering and putting back. One at a time replace the sub frame bolts with long 12mm? studding and a nut and washer. May be just do 2 or 3 you dont need to do all 4. You can then lower the sub frame by undoing the nuts.
When you put the sub frame back, it is easier to align to the studding and lift the sub frame by either tightening the nuts or manually lifting the sub frame then doing the nuts up to hold the sub frame in place. You can then remove the studding one at a time and replace with the correct bolts.

macafee2

Thanks for the video showing the parts you removed and also the pictures and updates. They will be a big help when I decide to tackle mine.

Thanks for your replies chaps - I've got good news - the Rover is FIXED!

I went home last night, in a deflated mood as the new master cylinder wasn't working. My dad, not a man to be beaten easily, decided to take it apart and investigate what was wrong with it. He doesn't really know what he did, however the good news is that once reassembled, it started working correctly.

Today I refitted it (not a job I ever want to do again!), topped it up and we bled the clutch.

With that done, we could reassemble the rest of the car (basically just the battery box and fuel filter) and with that done we could test the clutch and were really relieved to find that it was working correctly and was much lighter in operation than it had ever been. Result!

Not being one to skimp in life, the test drive was a 15 mile drive home from my partents' house and the Rover seems to drive better than it ever has. Weirdly, it seems to have a much smoother power uptake and just seems more eager than it was before. That could be because I'd been driving a Volvo for a couple of weeks - who knows.

I'll update this thread with a lessons learned section in case it's any help for the next person doing this job. Cheers for now :-)

Excellent news, glad you got all back together and working well! Look forward to the lessons learnt thread, as others have said this will help when I come to do the job myself.
Tommy :-)

The lessons learnt will be really useful as I see myself having to undertake this job in the near future - questions - did you use any special tools and how did you align the clutch plate before you put the g/box back?

There are 2 ways you can align the clutch plate. Buy or make up an alignment tool, or align the plate on the bench and hold it with 3 spots of Loctite. Once everything is assembled start the car in gear with the wheels still off the ground and the clutch depressed and the Loctite breaks and you are good to go.

You need a female torx bit for undoing the steering rack.
Torque wrench for doing most of the bolts back up.
I used a clutch alignment tool.



Have a good read of the Haynes manual before you start, it is pretty good for this job.
Don't be frightened to come to the forum and ask questions. This is a big job to undertake. Good luck

macafee2

Well done you should be pleased with yourself.

macafee2

De boy done good!
If you want another clutch to replace now you have the experience there is one waiting in my workshop ????

My dad turned me a wooden alignment tool on his lathe:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...aa81e6bc_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3143827b_b.jpg

Weirdly, mine was held in place with standard flanged bolts with 15 mm heads. The driver's side ones were longer because the casting is thicker there.

Thank you! Yes, it's one of the most in-depth things I've done with a car - certainly on my Rover, anyway.

Cheers!

Well, I'd be up for helping you if you needed it - you're not that far away from me.

I guess having done it once, it's not that daunting, however, I'm sure doing it on a different car will present different challenges!