upper rear suspension arms
 

Here's hoping, does anyone have a picture of the top of an unfitted new upper rear arm.

I am just wanting to confirm something about the new pair I received earlier this week and have a slight problem with :(

Brian :D

cant find the original (for enlargement) is this any use?


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

That link doesn't work for me Alan??

Hi Brian these pics in this listing Any use?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/263527142755

Yes Wullie, this picture in particular ;)

I'd better not comment further until I've spoken to my supplier, needless to say there is an issue with these replacements, and I'm hoping it's batch related :(

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-hQAA...vM/s-l1600.jpg

typical! Figured switching to public, the Facebook link would have worked. Wullie's link is better anyway :}

So can you see what is wrong with the arm in that picture Alan ;)

Hi Brian,I have some of these new arms in stock if you need to look at them

Gary, take a look at a new one, then an old one see where the anti roll bar brackets are welded in relation to the oval hole, and then measure from the centre of the bayonet spigot in the spring cup, to the inboard side of the spring cup.

In the latest arms I've ordered for my old man's tourer, the lower spring isolator doesn't fit properly in the spring cup, and the ARB bracket is welded 10mm off centre meaning the drop link is likely to foul.

I never noticed this on the last couple of pairs I've fitted as neither of those cars had a rear ARB.........

Pictures to follow

Bri :cool:

Brian,I just fitted an O/S one to an early V6 yesterday with ARB and all seemed OK but i will check them out.I got a couple of full sets when they were on offer,tried to get more today but they have gone up in price now.

Thinking about that Bri,if the hole is not central the drain holes will not line up with the cut outs in the rubber spring cushion.

Can your phone receive picture messages?, I'll send you a pic

No lol. (are you saying the locator for the isolator is out of position?

This was the image I was trying to link to, hard to make anything out in it though.

https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/a...5&d=1514134090

The arms and springs all were quite straightforward, with everything seemingly seating ok.

The arms themselves were purchased nearly 3 years ago now, and were apparently the last of the then batch.

The image in this EBay ad show the non central ARB bracket

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROVER-75-...4383.l4275.c10

Can you e mail it or messenger

That is exactly what I'm saying Alan, along with the bracket for the anti roll bar :(

For some reason I cannot get the picture to upload, I have a picture of the old one against the new, and it's as plain as day :cool:

They are the ones I have fitted, bought nearly 3 years ago, (but fitted last September). I cannot find the original image, to crop a larger resolution of it, but you can see in them, that the ARB bracket is quite central. So perhaps it is a batch issue. In saying that, and looking at the various ebay listings, the ARB brackets all seem to be of centre. :eek:

This is the old one

[IMG]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/839/4...7c3b29c0_b.jpgupper arrn 2 by clf1592, on Flickr[/IMG]

https://flic.kr/p/24YnuGZ

For some reason I can't seem to email the picture from my phone Gary :shrug:

But after measuring the isolator mounting hole, it appears to be 10mm further inboard, meaning the isolator fouls the radius part of the spring pan.

I've removed the spring from the isolator, and it's possible to stand on the centre to push it through the hole, and rotate it to lock it into place, but the flat section is raised up and I suspect the only cure would be to reduce the diameter of the isolator by cutting 5mm overall from the diameter.

The drainage holes do line up with the cutouts, I shall have to take some more measurements tomorrow to see if the position of the spring relative to the fulcrum bolt, and outer bolt remains the same as the original, and then work out if it will be necessary to cut off the ARB bracket and weld it back in the correct position.

You don't expect to have to fettle genuine parts though, to say I'm disappointed is an understatement :(

Brian :D

I wonder if the Roewe 750 has a different ARB set up to both MG7 and 75/ZT? :shrug:

These replacements are made in India, not China though Alan, and it would appear that the centre of the ARB bracket is offset toward the inboard side by the same amount as the isolator spigot.

My concern is the drop link is likely to foul the oval hole in certain positions of suspension travel if left unchanged.

As I said earlier both times I've done this job before, the cars in question didn't have an ARB fitted, so this may have gone unnoticed.

Hopefully these will help Brian

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/...s0i6uszma.jpeg



http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/...sim2w69km.jpeg

Here are the pictures of the offending arm alongside an old one for comparison.

https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/a...1&d=1524234216

https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/a...1&d=1524234235

Apologies for the picture quality, however it can be seen that the ARB mounting is not central, and the spigot in the spring cup is too close to the centre of the arm, meaning it is riding up on the radius of the cup.

Also it was not possible to fit the isolator while it was attached to the spring, hence the isolator being fitted on it's own.

I'm hoping this is a batch issue, and not a common denominator, as I'm not prepared to fit these to my car.

Brian :D

Ignore, it's OK now.
TC

Having just purchased a pair of these I have contacted Nick at ECP and he will be contacting Xpart on Monday for an answer, He did say they have sold in excess of 500 pairs with no issues / complaints.

Intersting thread. I will nip under the car tomorrow to look at the new one fitted that were obtained via Nick as well.

Saying that turbo dave made no comments when they were fitted :shrug:

Next time I’m under my car I need to check my arms that I fitted late last year. I don’t remember an issue with the spring in the cup but I’ve been having issues with the drop links I fitted at the same time and just renewed them again to cure a knock. I was blaming the drop link supplier

Well I've had a chance to do some measuring, and this confirms what was said in conversation with Gary Nelson earlier.

The distance between centres of the inner pivot bolt bush and the outer rose bush mounting are the same as the originals, and that of the upper drop link mounting.

Also the distance from the centre of the spring isolator spigot to that of the inner bush centre is the same.

What differs in the dimension of the spring cup, and the position of the oval clearance hole where the drop link passes through the arm, so apart from the creation of a possible water trap under the isolator due to it not seating fully in the cup, which can be rectified by removing 5mm from the outer diameter of the isolator, something I will have an experiment with tomorrow, and the possibility of any axial play in the antiroll bar, which may result in contact between the drop link and the inboard part of the oval hole.

In any case, I am going to cut off the brackets from the new arms, rework them slightly, then reweld them, simply because they are not parallel with one another due to the fact they are fitted into the reducing part of the oval.

I've another set of used arms, obtained from a low mileage ZT 180, these have been sandblasted, treated with Kurust, zinc primed, and given five coats of chassis black, before being ladled internally with lashings of cavity wax, so these will be fitted to the car instead, and the shortcomings in the new arms addressed when I have a little more time.

Perhaps I'm being a little too fussy :shrug:

Brian :D

I've fitted a pair of refurbished second hand arms to one of the cars requiring new arms, however something new was discovered today :getmecoat:

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...1&d=1525208266

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...1&d=1525208304

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...1&d=1525208304

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...1&d=1525208304

So what do you think of that development?

Brian :D

It's an exceedingly good upper wishbone?

I know, coat, then door.

I have now fitted a new pair of these complete with new springs. rear droplinks and can confirm on my car the ARB doesn't foul the wishbone and when sat on the road the distance from wheel centre to arch is spot on. back of car feels solid and secure.
Going to run for a week and nip back under and check all is well, I don't envisage any problems and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Still glad it is done though :)

Well I suppose I could use the foil trays from the jam tarts, and blutack them over the rusty holes in the original arms :shrug:

Seriously though, who can spot the fault?

Brian :D

Forget the antiroll bar Dave, and make a special tool from a thin piece of card, then feed it down your new arms..........I'm hoping this is isolated to the arms that I'm not likely to fit anytime soon :getmecoat:

They were probably made somewhere like this. :eek:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF865wbEeyI

Or more likely Bernie and Leepu at Bangla Bangers :getmecoat:

Brian :D

So this was a while back all this was kicking off.

I noticed exactly the same thing with my new arms.

Did Xpart give an answer or do anyhting about this? Was anything resolved at all ?

I test fitted the spring obviously, and the isolator fouls the side of the cut-out of course, just like others.

Every single one I see online is the same, so folk are just putting up with the isolator fouling? Under the wieght of the car Im sure it flattens out somewhat, but its still shocking quality. I am loathe to fit them, but have no choice with the car off the road while I do the entire rear suspension.

I have seen the quality of Indian drop links, and it makes the Chinese stuff look like it came from Bentley.

The lower isolator is to be remade slightly smaller in diameter from the original ;)

You can prune a small amount from your original ones without difficulty though Ross :)

Brian :D

Wow,

What a cop out! :p

If only they had made them properly in the first place.

What did they have to say about the "welds" where you could insert cardboard?

Whats their lead time on the isolator?

Edit:- Thats me almost done then with the ZT. Cant tolerate this level of support any longer, the quality of the parts is embarassing now. If they were £40 each fair enough, but to charge £130 PER ARM for that.... no chance. I'll likely sell my new arms then on here at a loss :( but hopefully will sort someone out who really needs them and wants to save a little on the retail.

Soon as these come up at the right price...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...s=1500&page=12

(to Brian or anyone)

would moving the location of the spring isolator locator not alter the geometry of the spring? (with the isolator being so thick, I cannot see it 'letting' the base of the spring 'pull' it back or crush it back to the designed position)

I imagine then that it could actually alter the spring into a more positive angle, in keeping with the travel of the upper arm. With this, I could imagine as the upper arm rotated on its axis, there is the possibility of the isolator lifting at the wheel side when under tension. If this did happen, then at best, the rear suspension could become 'squidgy', maybe even knocking against the cup in the chassis. At worst, the tail of the spring could be forced inside itself, maybe even snapping prematurely.

Below is a PS drawing hopefully illustrating what I mean. the image may exaggerate the reality of it though. Even if the handling is not compromised, I would think there is still a possibility of having excessive wear on the tyres with no means of adjusting it out.

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...3def4bf851.jpg

Relative to the car the springs position is not changed I believe.

It is just that the ARB mount and spring hole centre are different relative to the visual center of the spring cut-out.

I agree with you regarding price, being held to ransom for poor quality, if good quality fair enough you get what you pay for. Should be £60 - £70 tops, at least the cars are going to get a lot rarer in the next few years.

Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk

Look at the state of this:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROVER-75-...MAAOSwOxdbMUtn

Wonder how long it took for a brand new arm to look like that underneath...

For my sins, my spare car is currently a BMW 330d (E46).
The parts for it are so much cheaper (in general, some exceptions!) because they're made on a much larger scale.

It's absolute madness, but unfortunately these rear arms are what we're stuck with.
In the past, it's been theorised that E46 BMW arms are compatible - sadly not, they're too short and the wrong shape. Even the rear lower arms are different, even thought they appear identical - the BMW arms are around 3" shorter.

It does seem rather rediculess that its easier to get decent quality parts for a triumph stag, yet a car that's technicaly only been out out of production for a few years are as described in this thread (and others) :duh:

It's a pity a jig couldn't be made based on the MG Rover original steel arms and the BMW alloy versions cut and a new piece of alloy let in, not insurmountable by any means. Of course a potential weakpoint at the weld but surely still superior to an original corroded arm which was welded up during manufacture anyway. Perhaps too cost prohibitive without volume, and if it does fail then liability issues etc :shrug:

The problem we had when looking into it was the odd shape of the arm - it'd need exclusive tooling made up, and the costs of blueprinting an arm and having a jig etc made up was well over £50,000 from what I gathered in an initial chat with a suitable company.

As much as I'd love to have been knocking them out for a lot less than they currently are, with the number of cars left and demand I don't think it'd be viable for anyone other than XPart to do so.

While I'm happy they're available (I only imported the 193 I did because they were potentially going to be scrapped, and the need in the UK at the time was incredibly profound) and I'm not too fussed about them being just over the £100 mark, I am a bit annoyed they're not perfect at such a premium price point.
That said, I have faith that XPart will resolve as needed. We work with them a lot, and they do seem to be focusing on quality of parts (or at least that's what I've gathered from my chats with them).

You would think that because there is a lot of adjustment in the components that the tolerances wouldn't need to be that tight to justify £50k.
For a jig, I have visions of a simple piece of 1 1/2" box section with lugs/eyes welded at each end for the bush mountings and a large dowel with washer welded to the box section for the spring mounting. Then of course there would be the alloy welding, prep, heat treatment perhaps? for the cut and shut process which would start adding up, however at the end of the day the owner would have something that is relatively light, strong and would last for years in theory.

Just a quick update - I've been in touch with our SAIC dealer for some time, and he's been checking out if the tooling exists and if there's any more of the Chinese arms about - sadly the tooling has been scrapped, and there's no more arms either.

A shame, especially as the quality of Chinese parts was questioned at the time - but these seem so much worse :(

Mat. With regards to older suspension arms, I bought both upper and lower arms in August 2015. Not yet fitted as they were bought for use when absolutely necessary. I now need them fitted to my 2.0 KV6 as the car needs to have a rear end restoration to prolong its life. Is there any issue with arms from that period? You can also let me know the cost of the fixing kit for the job. Hope to get it all done this month before winter hits us.

Rear Arms - remove the subframe?
 

Hi can anyone tell me whether it is simpler to replace the the rear upper arms in situ on the car, OR is it just as easy to drop the rear subframe off and replace them that way?

Looks like four bolts and the whole subframe could come off. Assuming it would pass over the exhaust.

Many thanks Rich.

It is easier with the subframe off, especially if the captive nuts break free. It doesn't just drop down, but you have to wriggle it out. I did mine with exhaust dropped to the ground (support it along it's length though to protect the flexi). Support the rear hubs too when it's off to avoid excessive twisting if you can. You may also need to remove the central braces to lower the exhaust.

Whilst it's off clean it up and give it a little paint and rust treatment. Or get a spare and refurbish prior to doing the job. I did mine over a week , 5 hour days. But I was undersealing and cleaning all below too.

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

Are there any updates on good quality rear arms as I would like to keep my Mk 1 V6 as long as I can and despite my annual rustproofing inside and out with red oxide and Dynax S50, I suppose that tinworm will get there eventually?:shrug:I will soon be too old to be crawling under the car. Her indoors says that I already am!!!

Bought a pair in the last few weeks, hologramed as genuine MGR and were made in India, so it seems not.

Mind you, the trusted garage that fitted them, didn't raise any concerns about the fit or fitting of them.

As for quality, time will tell.

I've now bought a pair of original lightly used arms from a seller in Portugal. They are pristine, inside and out, (checked with my endoscope camera) so have given them extra coats of hammerite externally and Dynax S50 internally, prior to fitment. They appear to have never seen road salt or rain!:shrug: No Delhi jelly welds for my car!:D

Indian Arms
 

The Indian arms are certainly coming down in price I wonder why.

Note the specification ( Item specifics ) in the listings below, especially the part where it states Country/Region of Manufacture:

( United Kingdom )

When it can be clearly seen on the wrapping ( made in India ).

I think the reason for the price drop is because the seller of the Indian xpart arms can not get rid of them due to the problems.


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-M...0AAOSwRDVeE09I

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-M...oAAOSwUEheE04A

I wonder how closer we are to seeing the supposed newer upgraded arm are going to come on the open market.

Work on the brand new batch is still ongoing - but we should have some pictures of the new arms to hand shortly. ;)

The supplier has been made very aware of the previous quality issues via other suppliers, and knows we're expecting something every bit as good as the original part.

The supplier is as you solicited the preorder for then? What was their reason for sending only 3 arms when you ordered 300? Presumably the 297 will take as long to come from China as the 3 ... 3 to 4 months making it May June of 2020 before they land in the UK? :shrug:

Another update on these arms has been posted here: https://the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/s...66#post2849966

In short, it's great news and not long to go now! :D

I fitted at the time the only parts available to me couple of years back, so it's safe to say they are the Indian ones.


There was a lot of flaking paint inside the new parts, so I treated them prior to them being fitted, and they seem to be holding out ok so far.


I live within spitting distance of the North Sea, and the associated salty air, so the corrosion resistance needs to be fairly robust.