Metal thermostat housing KV6
 

I have now got a cracked and leaking thermostat housing on my V6. Less than a year old!
I am going to make a housing in cast aluminium or brass, and split it, so that the thermostat itself can be replaced.
If anyone would be interested in one, in principle, please let me know.
At the moment just dong feasibility.

yes I'd be interested in one in due course having replaced the Plastic thing in my KV6 last year. Surprised they were never made of metal in the 1st place as the plastic ones have a reputation of rattling and wearing themselves over a couple of years and then fracturing. Lets have some pics when you've developed your prototype.

Just had mine all replaced so I would be interested for the future as I'm sure it'll go again. :)

As above, great idea. would be interested :)

sounds like a good idea, the problem would be design/tooling costs for a lost wax or pressure die casting, not sure the demand would be great enough to recoup development costs

Working on it, will let you know.:)

Any news on these Kaiser?
I would imagine there would be a popular market for these:xmas-smiley-023:

No, no news yet.
I am about getting my own unit up and running, but I have damaged one O-ring in the petrol injection pipe, and had to order a replacement.
I hope to get the engine running over Christmas, but you know many good intentions go awry over this period:icon_eek:
I will report back when done and dusted!

Depending upon the final price, we might be interested in these ;)

I have now finally got the engine back together.
I had difficulty in getting the seal right on the front injector pipe. Turned out there was a bit of an o-ring that had got squeezed and disappeared.
Blew the pipe out, but never noticed the missing part.

The good news:
I have taken the car for a short spin. The thermostat seems to work fine, no leaks, quick warm up, cooler running. Still have to do a longer run, because:
The bad news.
I have picked up an (more) engine fault(s), yellow light on. The car runs fine, but a little rough, and then it will loose a bit of power. There is black smoke from the exhaust, as if unburnt petrol.
The question(s).
1. If I have lost petrol pressure and this triggered the (yellow engine) light?
a. will the light stay on until cleared?
b. will this cause the engine to run in limp mode until cleared?
c. can I re-set and clear the engine light without special tools?

The advice.
Before you undertake a strip of the engine, take many pictures, and make sure the light is bright and the pictures sharp. It saved my bacon with the connection of supply/return petrol and also with the one wiring loom where I could not find the corresponding connector. Turned out to be on another wire hiding behind the rear bank of cylinders. Easy! (, if you know how.!)

Hello Kaiser,

I had to fill my coolant a bit every 2 weeks, and I have found out today that my thermostat is cracked. I can’t see where, but there is coolant in the V part of the engine. Hoses seems to be good.

I have an appointment with Lates on the second of May, for cambelts, and thermostat replacement but I am not shore if it is save with easy driving, and keep filling up. I will give Lates a ring today.

So you will understand that I am more interested then I was yesterday with your metal thermostat housing, any news yet?

Best regards Rob.

Regarding the thermostat housing.
I got slightly side tracked by my MAP sensor going faulty on me.
That problem has been sorted now, and I can give you feed-back on how the thermostat works.
In one word: perfectly.
Since my resurrection of the engine, it has not used one drop of water. In open traffic, it runs at 90 degrees on the gauge, also if in town with AC on. Even if 30 degrees outside.
In town it will run up to about 105 degrees and then come down quickly when the fan starts.
But apart from this, there is now a calm in my heart, that I can ride this car without any sudden surprises, I never approach the car with fear of having lost water. I know I won't have. It is now as unlikely to suffer a sudden loss as my old reliable Rovers. And this makes such a difference!!!
I have looked into having these units cast in brass. The pattern maker has quoted me a price he thought would scare me, and it did! However I will pursue it again, my prototype really works.
Now I don't know how handy you are, but I will gladly let you know what I did if you are interested. If you have a TIG or MIG welder, access to a lathe and a pedestal drill, then you can make one out of steel as I did.
I nearly fell into a couple of traps, but luckily I avoided them, so can you.
Apart from the thermohousing itself, you also need to replace the two plastic cooling pipes in the V, and you will have a normal engine with normal reliability. And that is quite a relief!!

I used my car with this problem for a few months for the very simple reason than I had no time to look for it. If you have to top it every two weeks no worries. In december last year I had to do it daily, sometimes two times a day. The annoying part of the problem is that you have to keep an eye permanently on the temperature gauge, the risk to ruin the engine because overheating is huge, because nobody tells you when the crack becomes larger to loose the coolant in minutes; and I assure you that this will happen.
I wish I had a metal housing but couldn't wait until somebody had one made for sale. I could have done it myself, I know enough people who could cooperate to make one (including myself :), excuse my modesty...) but I had doubts that I could find a certain market. (It's obvious that it is not worth the effort to make one, regardless the chosen technology).
In lack of a metal housing I reinforced the new part with an epoxy based belt, hopefully it will last longer. If you are interested to give it a try I'll search and post the link.
Until then: one eye on the temperature gauge and good luck !

Edited: what about a plastic one, but assembled with screws instead the welded joint ? I can do it but it is limited to 130 Celsius temperature resistance. And it will be...white :)

Congratulations with your excellent project!

Now that would be a great feeling, driving a car with this problem fixed permanently!

I have no access to the machinery you mentioned, but a friend of my has at his work! Unfortunately I have no other thermostat here (apart from the broken one on my 75) perhaps I can find one at a dealer, or a member here in Holland who can loan me one.

So I you have any further tips on witch traps to look out for, I will have a chat with my friend a see if he is able to make it.

Do you have any photo’s by any change?

Thanks for you reply Fidel,

I hope Kaiser is able to find someone to manufacture metal or brass thermostat housings in a batch soon, I mean realy soon:D. I trust there are loads of members who are interested in a metal thermostat housing. Watch the amount of reply’s when he makes his announce that production can be started!

For now I hope Kaiser will be so kind to help me getting started with the appropriate info and I will ask a friend of my if he is able to make it.
Your idea of making the housing more strong with epoxy is an interesting one. However I do not know how this will hold on the long term. On the other hand, if you do nothing, it will break for shore.

I can not imagine a team of car developers at Rover where someone presents his idea of making a thermostat housing of plastic, knowing that it will be fitted on a very warm place on the engine, and not being laughed out by his colleagues. I just can’t. It must have been the same team responsible for the VIS motors.

Rob.

I remember having posted something on this somewhere before, including some pictures.
Let me have look if I can find it.

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...tal+thermostat
Hope this works.
I will push ahead next week and let you know regarding the cast unit. If you can hold that long!!

Yes, I can hold that long. I hope my thermostat will too.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Rob.

Found the link. I'm pretty sure that no one except me will try it before I'll announce that it worked (let's say...in five years :)) but just in case you want to take a look:

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthrea...ced+thermostat

Ok thanks Fidel.
Nice job.

I would be interested in purchase too at a reasonable price, not too far away from the plastic version, up to double the price, I suppose.

I would imagine the production costs would be far more than that unless they were made in the 100's

Hi Fidel,

Perhaps you will be followed sooner than you think. I have visited the website of Poxilina, and it is very interesting if my metal thermostat housing project proves to be undoable for me. I am following a dual line on the moment, and investigate on both Kaisers and you solution.

On the Poxilina site I saw at the specs that the maximum temperature is 80 degrees Celsius, so I am afraid that the engine temp while riding slow in city’s or in traffic jam’s will be a bit on the high site. I have dropped them an email if they have also other more heat resistant stuff. No reply yet, so I’ll be waiting for that now.

When your modified thermostat was fitted I recon you kept an eye op it from time to time. How long in km/miles and time ago did you fit it, and how does is look now? Is it heat resistant enough? And are there any tip and tricks when using this stuff?

Rob.

Hi Rob,

It is obvious that a metal housing would be the recommended solution, but due to the complicated shape I decided to abandon the idea and to try this improvisation which was very cheap and not time consuming. I know that the epoxy compound is used somewhere around it's limits if not beyond it, but even if it fails it will not do any harm. No idea in what temperature range it is actually working, it depends on the plastic case thermal resistance and the only test I can do is to estimate the temperature touching the components of the cooling system with my hand. It may be above 80 degrees but definitely not above 100. No problems noticed by now except a slight smell under the bonnet when the engine is hot, but the reinforcing "belt" is only two months old, only time will tell if it will last or not.
A scientific approach would have been to include a small temperature sensor (an ordinary silicon diode) in the resin mass but, honestly, I didn't think about it at that moment.
That would tell how far the external temperature of the thermostat housing goes. Very easy to do it and if there is any member who has the time and the pleasure to experiment I will provide all the necessary information. The principle is very simple, based on the fact that the diode junction voltage is proportional with the temperature and increases by about 2 millivolt per Celsius degree.
I don't know what means their statement "POXILINA® withstands up to 80° C unaltered." According to my experience heated epoxy resins become slightly elastic when "cooked", returning to their normal state when cooled, if anything else happens in their chemical structure I don't know.
A better alternative is a special heat resistance polyurethane resin, it withstands up to 130° C if properly cured, but it comes in a liquid form, requiring a mold attached to the thermostat housing.
Whatever you'll chose to try feel free to ask any question, I'll try to help with any information within my knowlege range.

The temperature of the housing will be around 100 degrees. The water temperature goes up to 105 in traffic, under normal conditions, and there is no reason to expect much less through the plastic.
There can be no doubt that this is hot for many plastics, also the endless heating/cooling fatigues the plastic; the reason we see these types of failures more frequently is, that we are getting to the end of the useful lifespan, about 5 years I guess under such pressure and temperature conditions.
I am doing the costing for the metal unit at the moment.
If we go ahead we are looking at about 2 weeks.

Hi Kaiser, agree with Temps you mention.

Interestingly on another thread I posted was this observation:

KV6 verses L series Thermostat comparison


This thought occurred to me while working on my sisters Rover 600 SLDi (90k miles L series engine) which has a similar plastic remote thermostat housing.
I have never seen one of these leak as they probably get more cooling due to their location ........front of engine block.......whereas there must be vast amounts more heat in the V of the KV6.

Many owners have changed an L series thermostat due to Stat failure rather than housing leaking...........unless anyone knows different !
I would imagine the hottest the plastic housing gets on an L series most of the time would be 85-90 Deg.


Another thought from the boiler room for KV6 owners (especially) to check their cooling fans are working on all speeds.
The thermostat housing will probably suffer "Thermal Shock" & leak sooner if for instance the cooling fan only has some speeds missing or just the "failsafe" HIGH speed left.

Any one familiar with this stuff? http://www.jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php
It should be capable to withstand 260°C and does not crimp. It is also attaching to various materials.

Does anyone know what material the thermostat housing is made of, ABS perhaps???

Don't know what it's made of but ABS has a max temperature of 80 C and melts at 105 C ;)

Russ

ABS is high impact resistant and elastic and the thermostat housing is brittle and rigid, it is not ABS.
BTW, the melting temperature is around 180 C, 105 C is too low even for vacuum forming. I have this kind of equipment and some experience with various polymers.
80-85 C as the maximum serving temperature for long time is correct.

Well I'm only going off the tech info. :shrug:

http://www.dynalabcorp.com/technical_info_abs.asp

Russ

I shall have my thermostat checked when I will have the cam belts changed next month. My car has also been loosing some coolant liquid since last summer (all in all: about 1 litre refill since then)
I will mention his thread to the garage manager as well as he quoted me a lot of stuff ranging from hoses to gaskets etc... and did not mention the thermostat... :shrug:

Pe66
 

Just looked on a new OEM housing

Part No PEM 101050
The material is Polyamide Nylon PA66 and the operation temps are:

-78 Deg C to 121.1 Deg C so close to the upper limit temp wise.

Here's the info: http://www.polymerweb.com/_datash/pa66.html

THat spec sheet says 'degrees F'

Thanks Bernard
I've converted the post which now puts a different light on it doesn't it;)

Actually I don't think it is a mistake, just an improper description. It is not about melting, polymers has a so called "vicat point", it shows the temperature which starts to cause the material distortion. It is oftenly used in thermoforming, the required temperature for this process is above but close to this point.
If you consider that a material starts to melt when distorting you can call it "melting temperature". :)

It's a Vee and loosing coolant. :smilie_re::mad: Don't bother to look anywhere else. 99% it is the thermostat. Look for orange stains between the cylinder banks. You only have to remove the engine cover for that. An 8mm socket wrench to undo two screws and a small battery torch.

The plastic that the thermostat housing and attached pipes is made out of is specifically PA66-GF30

No wonder they fail then!
Shame the housing wasn't originally made out of Peek-gf30


But as mentioned before, the seam of the very similar housing situated on the front of the L - Series engine doesn't seem to fail

They should have been made out of metal in the first place.
It is mind boggling what is going on sometimes. I guess the majority of engines made today are issued with such sub-standard stuff.
It will last the guarantee period, then who cares.
Modern mentality?
Absurd.
Just to add from the spec sheet of this plastic mentioned above, it clearly states service temperatures up to 80 degrees. If this is an undisputed fact, then the designers have knowingly used an inferior material. If Rover was still in existence, I guess some enterprising soul could actually sue for damages. There must be thousands of people who have had serious economic issues because of this incompetence/negligence.

I believe BMW's suffer very similar type fault on some models according to neighbour who has this sort of Problem at the Mo.
Not sure what model it is off hand.

In view of the above, then for the V6 guys, we are talking the thermostat housing itself, the 90 degree pipe sitting next to the thermostat, the thick pipe linking the thermostat to the back of the engine, the elbow on the radiator, possibly the radiator, possibly the expansion box, although the last two might be different materials.
For the 1.8T it will be the T-piece, the elbow on the radiator and the quick connector to the engine/block and, possibly the radiator/expansion box.

As an add on, I saw a picture of the oil pick up (in Haynes), looks like the same sh**

Hi Kaiser

Think you're going to have a LOT of sales with all these metal pieces!
Have you started an official order list yet or is it via PM?

Jules

Put me down for Qty 2 Metal KV 6 housings please.

Thanks Jules.
I will put you down for an interest in two units.
I don't know how it is going to work, but I guess some sort of list will be needed.
We will build that bridge when we want to cross that river:D

No need for a bridge Kaiser,

When the metal housings are ready to deliver, just drive from Johannesburg to Cairo in Egypt from there to Dimashq in Syria, straight on to Istanbul in Turkey. From there, stay on the main road to France, go to Calais, and hop up the train, and after 30 minutes you’re in England. Hop over to Lates to get your cambelts done, and leave the thermostat housings there. I will be there to let him fit one at that time :drool4:.

Just a thought from me, and a nice tour for you :o.

Rob.

I'm just wondering whether a Poxilina one is going to be better than a Poxiplastic one:D
Getting back to the subject of metal ones. I am going to Joburg on business for a week/10 days in April/May and could take an empty case? How heavy would they be? :) Dave

Not heavy at all. We are planning on making them in aluminium. At worst twice the mass of the plastic units, I would guess.
Whether or not you can persuade the authorities that it is not a bomb, a dangerous weapon or drugs, is an entirely different story!:getmecoat:

Hi Kaiser,

Pssst, off the record, and as a secret between you and me .

When do you think the first metal housings will be available? I ask this because my thermostat housing is leaking, and I am scheduled at Lates for service including thermostat housing at the beginning of May. I have asked a friend of mine if he is able to make me a metal one, but he is still investigating.

If he is not able to make one, then there is plan B enforce a original housing like Fidel did, bud I will probably use JB-Weld, because it can stand more heat. But I am also waiting for an answer of JB-Weld USA if it will attach well to the plastic PA66-GF30 (thanks to EXMSRalph we know what plastic it is made of).

But to be honest, I would like to have a metal housing if possible as you will understand.

Best regards,

Rob.

Remember that it's not always the housing itself that fails ! Kaiser is quite rightly talking of the full kit of three pieces . My recent failure was on the 90 deg elbow , broke up at the bottom , and in Jim McGlynn's excellent guide which I followed the problem there was also the elbow . My thermostat housing itself was actually in perfect condition with not even a stain on it at 81k miles .

Best stuff I've found is Q-bond. Sticks to PA66-GF30 like the proverbial :D.

If you use with the Grey filler powder it will withstand 180 C. ;)

You can repair alloy castings with this and it won't fail if applied correctly.

Russ

Sounds like I could bring 20 back [as samples at no value:D] can you make these in time? Dave

Seriously Kaiser, if you could have some made by end April/early May, I would be happy to collect and take to UK and send to whoever wants, collect moneys and send to you. As I have belts/water pump/therm housing, service in Oct. I have a vested interest:D Dave

Thanks Fidel, I will try to have a look this weekend

Any news on the metal thermostat housings Kaiser? And more important, is yours still working fine?

This week I have spoken to my friend who could possibly make a metal thermostat housing at his work. I had a new original plastic one with me, so he could have a good look at it. The good news is, he can make it. The bad news is that he thinks that making the fitting for the thermostat itself inside the housing could give trouble to make it close and/or seal completely when it should. Bottom line is that when the housing will be fitted, I am at Lates, so changing the metal housing there is no option, and that would be a shame of all the hours and hours of work of my friend and his colleagues.

…Only help would be to saw the thermostat housing open and see how the inside is designed. But I do not have a broken one. Oh, and a KV6 engine for fitting the pipes would be handy he told me… (don’t have a spare one of that either). I am depending on my 75 for work, so using my engine is not an option (no public transport where I work).

My friend had another idea! Go to a specialist in plastics company and let them reinforce the original welding by making a new welding on top of the standard one! Good idea! So I called a couple of the specialists, and yes they can all help…, but not with PA66-GF30, grrrr! The original housings are made of a Nylon / PolyAmide composition enforced with Glass Fibre. For the production there are probably other components added, and when such a product is ready, they can do nothing to enforce it with other plastics, or weld it again.

Because my thermostat housing is leaking for some time now, I will not reschedule my timeslot with Lates, so it is probably best to follow Fidel, and reinforce the original one that I have here with JB-Weld to be as safe as I can be for the future.

Hopefully you will be able to produce and deliver metal housings before my timeslot (end of April) with Lates, then a metal one will be fitted. If not, the reinforced one must do the job.

Rob.

The first units should be ready towards the end of April. I shall try to get a unit finished by the middle of the month for you.
That will be two halves for the housing, a thermostat, the bent and the straight tube.
The only other bits you will have left are the radiator components.
My handbuilt unit has worked perfectly. I have not lost one drop of water since it was installed, and the engine runs cooler in most conditions.
I will be able to give you a better date as time progresses.

Best news of this week...
 

Wow Kaiser, that is the best news of this week. I would be very thankful if you could help me out like this.

Thanks for your great help in advance.
Rob.

No rocket science inside. An ordinary thermostat with a rubber seal.
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...mostat/5-1.jpg

Good morning Fidel,

I see what you mean! We did only see it from underneath and than we could not figure out where the big clip did go. I am at work now, so no pictures here.

Thanks for your photo.

Rob.

The dies for the casting of the metal parts are almost ready.
I will be away from this Thursday until the 9th of April.
Shortly after my return, we hope to have the first completed set replacement pipes as well as the thermostat.
I will, if possible, courier one complete set to you rob and that should reach you about the 20th of April.
As for the mass of the set, we are looking at less than half a kilo per set, so if the courier offer still stands, then you know what to plan for.
Once we get to mid April I will have a good handle on cost, freight charges etc.

Well that is very, very good news!
It seems that I’ll be driving “on metal” after April:drool4::drool4::drool4:. I will be waiting for your details about the cost of the housing and thermostat, shipping etc. For now my thermostat housing is still holding, and if I keep the revs under 2500rpm, the leakage is minor.

You’re working on dies, does this mean the housings will be made of brass? Just curious!

Well Kaiser, thanks very much in advance with your work:clap:, and success with the development of the replacement of one of the known weak spots of our lovely cars.

Best regards,

Rob.

Well, almost there!
[ATTACH]Attachment 2684

Attachment 2685[/ATTACH]

That is very impressive! Please put me down for one once your production starts Kaiser...:)

Brilliant work Kaiser!
And changeable thermostat also by the looks of things?
Have you worked out any retail prices yet?

Thanks very much for pioneering this project.:)

I want one please let me know how much and how long??

Me too, although I changed mine few weeks ago for an original part (that cost dear money :shrug:)

The cost of a set of aluminium items, assembled and ready to install will be EUR65 for anyone ordering a set from the batch to be made later this month, or early May (as things look at the moment).

If you just want the bits and fit another thermostat of your choice, I will charge EUR60, then you assemble yourself.
All parts are guaranteed for one year, against cracks or other breakage. The integrity of the installation process will remain your responsibility, so check the sealing when you install.
If, for any reason, you are not happy, you will get a refund or exchange, (not postage).

The advantages of this all metal set-up, compared to the standard system are:
1. No breakage as result of age and fatigue, reliability of metal not plastic.
2. The thermostat itself can be replaced using the housing again. No more
buying of plastic bits.
3. The thermostat can be chosen for specific temperatures.
4. The thermostat can be drilled, to maintain some flow, even if it fails in the closed position, making it possible to maintain some cooling even with a failed thermostat. It will also reduce thermal shock but slightly prolong warm up.
5. The system has been designed to give you full cooling (no re-circulation through engine) at a thermostat 70 percent open (as opposed to 100% from the factory). This will ensure that your system cools fully, much earlier than from the factory, increasing safety.
6. You can drill and tap for extra temperature probe in the housing, providing for improved temperature information directly from the "battle zone"
7. You can operate without thermostat, if required.

The postage will depend on a number of issues not fully known at the moment, but I will make sure that a set will cost no more than EUR 20 with surface mail to the UK. Delivery would be in the order of 4 weeks. Speedier delivery can be made, but will have to be arranged.

I will provide better prices for bulk orders.

I am sure there will be something I have forgotten, but please ask.

If you want to contact me directly use the e-mail address below. (Insert the appropriate symbol @ in the address below)

Good work Kaiser .........where do we sign?:lol:
And a reasonable price I feel to when you consider the consequences of the plastic one failing altogehter!

Can you give us more info on para 5 above.
Do you mean you have altered (raised) the seating height where the "bottom stat disc" closes off the re circulation port?

If so, how will this alter the stability of the running temperature?
Presumably you have tested the new housing now for quite a few 1000's miles in your KV6 and by the sound of it, all is good?

Can you put me down for 2 please initially, but if the first batch becomes oversubscribed someone else can have my second housing?

Cheers & Xpart better stop producing the chocolate housing forthwith:p:

I've got a feeling that I'm going to have an investigation of my 'stat assembly very soon as there is evidence of a tiny leak on the connecting pipe. So please put me on the list as a matter of urgency.

Yes, the floor in the housing has been raised to stop re-circulation of hot water back into the engine when the thermostat opens 70% in stead of fully.
I have noticed on some thermostats there seems to be an interference obstruction with age, and they sometimes will not open fully. Also the recirculation back to the engine directs less flow through the radiator.
With these two issues, I designed my own hand built unit, so that the flow of heated coolant would fully go through the radiator, 30% earlier. This unit has worked fine, and I tend to get lower running temperatures in traffic, and a faster cooling when the fan starts. I have installed another temperature gauge, so I can see the the actual temperature.
If, for one or other reason you desire to maintain the original setting, you can machine 3mm off the bottom where the lower part of the thermostat seats.

Hi Jules please use roversATnetactive.co.za for placing yourself on the list for a unit (or two). :D:D:D My e-mail box is annoyingly small on the forum.
(replace AT with @ in the address above)

OK will do.

BTW
Your forum mail box will increase & your name will turn red if you hit the subscribe button;) Only 3 euros

But suggest you make your name BOLD blue (more for commercial folk such as myself) It's still cheap advertising !

What do mean blue? I'm blue enough from just looking at the news.:shrug:
Guess what? you pay my subs, I give you a discount. Deal?

The first set has been made and is due for installation shortly.
The pattern of the parts remains, but the material thickness has been increased on all surfaces to be machined. Purely for cosmetic reasons.
Machining costs are going to be slightly higher than anticipated, and the cost of units ordered after 15th of May will increase.
Herewith pictures of the first completed set, before dispatch.
Attachment 2756

Attachment 2757

The parts are better but direct replacements for the original numbers:

PEM 101050 Thermostat housing with thermostat
PEP 101970 Straight coolant pipe
PEP 103270 L shaped pipe

All complete ready to install, with O-rings

You can contact me on the address below.

roversATnetactive.co.za (replace AT with @ in address:))

This would resolve the issue I have with my car. I have found that the thermostat maintains the temperature to around 96 degrees when idling. This is 1 degree above from when the radiator fan is turned off by the ecu - hence the fan runs constantly at idle speeds in traffic once the initial temp hits 100. I have already replaced the thermostat which improved the problem where the temperature used to stabilise at around 98 at idle speed (even with rad fan running).

have you change the cap on the expansion tank?

The first fitting of a metal thermostat housing made by Kaiser is a fact…
 

Last Saturday the cast aluminum thermostat housing was built on our KV6 engine at Lates. The fitting itself was no problem at all, just a small leak because of the surface being a bit rough on mine, fixed in no time by Pete at Lates. Kaiser did not have had time for machining this unit more smooth because of the very little time slot for getting the unit on time from Johannesburg to Holland. Just In Time is an understatement here!

The thermostat housing is seen by a friend of mine, he is an experienced and very skilled metal craftsman himself and he had great respect for the not easy job that Kaiser had done! And I agree with that. Also others have seen the housing, and no negative response was given by anyone, all were impressed.

My set was the straight pipe, the curved pipe, and the housing itself with a built in BMW 82ºC thermostat, typical driving temperature of the coolant on a flat road is 90ºC, and according to several members of this forum this is normal. For fitting the standard original MG-Rover parts can be used (2 clips for the straight pipe, and the 4 O-rings) at Lates a small amount of Vaseline was used while inserting the O-rings. If the BMW thermostat ever fails, the housing can be opened by unscrewing three screws with nuts and it can be replaced with a new one.

I witnessed the fitting and it looked to me like it was a straight forward thing to do, but to be honest, all things I see at Lates seems to be logic and easy.

The set is well worth the money for me. Driving my 75 now with a low chance of a leaking thermostat housing gives me a nice comfortable and reliable feeling. Especial with the knowledge that I am not skilled enough myself to fit a new one if a original plastic one was fitted, what will probably start to leak at a certain point. I just checked the V of my engine, and it was completely dry, like it should.

Thanks to Kaiser for making this superb metal thermostat housing for me.
Also many thanks to the Lates team for helping me out with fitting the housing, and for the excellent 150K service with cam belts and lots of other great things they have done to the 75.

Rob.

Here are some more pictures.

Yes, I have tried that too. It's done this since brand new, the ex MGR dealership had several attempts to sort it including radiators, temp sensors etc, all to no avail. It's only when I replaced the thermostat myself that things improved (but not totally cured).

Well Rob, glad that it worked out. Sure it will work for many years to come.!

Brilliant. I had mine replaced in January, 150Euro for the part, and 50 to fit. If what is writtem is true, that it cracks over a period of time, I'd like to buy one. What are the chances of having one shipped to Poland? Cheers, F

We will ship to Poland. No problem.
If you want one, put yourself on the list.
Use he email address here:
roversATnetactive.co.za (replace AT with @)
And, it is true, the original thermostat housings and the pipes are made out of plastic, and they do leak, sometimes almost from new!

:wss: For € 150 they should have put a golden thermostat housing in your 75. But € 50 for fitting it is not bad at all…

just a short update.
The castings are done, except for the lower half of the housing, where we have a problem with a floating core. We are inserting one more support in the mold, to cure the problem and obtain consistent high quality.
I will contact each of you who ordered when shipment is about to take place.

Any order placed before the 16th May will be at the current price, after that I have to adjust the cost. As an example, the costs of the thermostat insert, has gone up by 35% in the last month alone!

Just added my Quick Search Term = v6stat

TC

Put me down for one please. Mine hasn't gone but it will be a good insurance policy.

Edd

The new price for the thermostat housings and associated pipes is EUR70 plus transport.


We have cast a batch and improved the casting to provide greater consistency in wall thickness.

To anyone on the shipping list, I have contacted the first members on the list. I have not forgotten the rest, and you should hear from me within a couple of weeks, as the units are finished.

Not wanting to create any pressure but is there any idea as to when those like me at the end of the queue can expect delivery?

Thanks

Edd

Not heard much about this project for a while. Is it still a goer? :shrug:

Edd

Attachment 3154

Mr Ed. Have a look at the picture, and you will see the last units assembled curing in the sun before pressure testing.
So I guess this is a yes, it is most certainly a goer.:wss:
Admittedly the go was a bit pedestrian while we sorted a floating core and a sharp corner out, which gave porosity in the lower half of the chamber.

Both problems are now sorted out with a re-designed mold, and the affected units re-worked.

Shipment has started.

roversATnetactive.co.za (replace AT with @)

I would like to buy one of these please. If you could add me to a waiting list or PM with payment details then it would be appreciated.

Many Thanks

Hi Monk.
Told you to replace your thermostat when you were in there last time, didn't I! Well, hindsight is 20/20 vision, as you know.
Please send me an e-mail on the link below, this is necessary to keep order in the orders, if you understand.

The cost is currently EUR 90 for surface mail to the UK (or eq. in Pounds)
That will give you peace of mind, that your engine is not slowly, and unnoticed loosing cooling. Further, next time you need a new thermostat, you just get the thermostat itself and you have saved any extra outlay. The reliability of the engine will be greatly enhanced. In all modesty:D

roversATnetactive.co.za replace AT with @

Email sent.

You did indeed but the way I see it I got an extra 12months out of a part that may or may not have broke in the 12 months I had that one. Swings and round abouts but now I'll be ready for when it happens again!! :D

I am still interested as to when we may expect delivery? Just an approximate date please?

Thanks

Edd

Hi Mr Edd.
I ship as fast as I can after payment. That at the moment means about 3 to 4 weeks.
However the nature of this product means that the process moves in batches, through purchasing, casting, machining, assembly and testing.
You can have almost everything ready, only to find that you can't get the thermostat unit in time, or the casting has left holes in item X or the foundry had a rush order and your items Y will be made 2 weeks later. Then you have to machine, assemble, cure and test, and possibly rectify, re-assemble, re-test.
There are certain challenges to make items such as these!:D
As the process gets streamlined, the manufacturing time decreases, but will most likely never get much below a couple of weeks.

The moral of the story is that the thermostat will need to get replaced, sooner or later. That is a fact. You might as well prepare and have it ready for that day.



Kind regards

Thanks for this info... I am already in communication regarding payment and ordering so this service is moving much quicker than I thought, considering the process required. Well done.

Anyone who has a thermostat issue and not in a hurry to get the car on the road could still get a reasonable turn around for this item.

I currently don't have any problems but this new metal thermostat will be on my shelf waiting for when I do.

Thanks for all the hard work.

Edd

Received my new metal thermostat housing today, looking very good!
Just wondering about one thing though, the thermostat is not closing towards the upper hole, there are a couple of mm gap.

I have no idea which of the connections on the housing will go where, but at an ambient temperature of 20 degrees c, shouldn't the 'stat be fully closed?

Hi. Glad you got it, and glad you like it.;)
The thermostat is closed at anything up to 80 degrees. Then it opens gradually, to be fully opened at something like 95 degrees I guess.
The unit is a double acting thermostat. In other words, it allows the water to run to the radiator, and at the same time it also controls flow back into the engine block!
The easy part of the thermostat to see, is the part that controls the engine block flow. That part is open at room temperature, about 7mm. That is a little brass disk at the bottom of the unit. I believe that is the one you have had a look at.
As the thermostat opens, that little disk moves towards the bottom of the housing, to block the return into the engine, while the thermostat at the top, increases the flow to the radiator. Your unit will close (the recirculation into the engine, at the bottom) when it is at about 70% fully open for flow into the radiator.
This gives you maximum cooling earlier than the standard unit, for good reason.
There is a 5mm hole drilled in the thermostat, to make sure that you will always have some circulation to a) prevent thermal chock b) prevent the formation of air pockets and c) allow (emergency) cooling even if the thermostat does not open.
The thermostat should however be seated on its own base at 20 degrees, and I believe it is. I don't think it is easy to see, so in case you have tried to let water through, it will pass through the hole in any case, and also along the edge of the thermostat insert, which, for the reasons given above, is not sealed.
The end result is that you will, even in the closed position, have a rudimentary flow of water through the unit, and that is intentionally!
Throw the thing into a pot and boil it, and you can see the action of the lower disk. I have done exactly that with all units, yours included, it is working as it should, unless severely damaged, which is not easy to do!
Clear as mud??, see the pictures, and click for larger versions.Attachment 3300

Attachment 3301
If you are still unsure of anything, let me know.
Good luck!:)

Thanks Kaiser, that pretty much explained everything I ever wanted to know about thermostats in the KV6 engine!

When are you comig to fit it? ;)

Hi Kaiser

Retrofitted yours during the week.
WORKS PERFECT!!!:bowdown::bowdown:
Will post a more detailed review after holidays (debut September) driving around 3000-3500 miles.

Thanks again for your fine and perfect job and keep on going:band:

Cheers Mintman

I am happy that you are happy!
Just keep an eye on it, get a good torch and check for any anomaly in the V and water level. You must always check carefully and often in the beginning, especially because a small leak will not normally be noticed, unless you look for it!.
I am sure you will be fine, just as a precaution!
Looking forward to the pictures!

roversATnetactive.co.za replace AT with @

Hi Guido,

Today I tried to email you but something is wrong with you mail box, I get the message "relaying denied for...". So I reply here:

Thanks for your question. Two day ago I received the parcel. Customs clearance took al while. I had to fill in a form about the contents, value and if it was a gift or a purchase. I said it was a gift value €35. They believed it and I didn’t have to pay any import taxes.

The parts are really good quality. Already I sanded the ends smooth. My current thermostat housing was replaced last year, leaking after 8 years and 110.000 km. As I want to keep the 75 for at least another 5 years, I will keep this one as spare. I expect to have to change the housing/pipes at least once more.

Thanks for everything and all the energy you put in this project.

Hi Leon!
Glad you got it.
I had started wondering!
Let us know when it is in!

Metal Thermostat
 

Hello all,

I too have had a worrying water-loss problem with my Rover 75 2L V6 Auto for over 7 months now. Whether it was a HGF or not was not clear. After reading Kaiser's thread's I decided to buy his metal thermostat housing and on reveiving it used Jim McGlynn's thread (although it wasn't 100% accurate for my car, it was a help). My plastic version was a mess. The goose neck was split above the O-ring position and the main body showed leakage at its splitline. This was last weekend. I then had an 150 mile trip and a return trip yesterday (as I was on holiday) and I had no show of any problem...I did lose water when I arrived at my destination but returning home I lost no water...which if it was an HGF, there would have been. I recommend anyone getting the metal thermostat. It was my lifesaver.

Hi Kaiser , thanks for the email. Will order one from you, how do I pay you .
Also it is to fit a 2ltr petrol manual rover 75, 1999 year. Is that correct.
thanks sil

Sil,
I have emailed you a couple of days back, please let me know your thoughts.

Yes this will fit the 2.0 kv6.

Feedback regards metal housing from members
 

Hi Guido are you on hols not heard from you lately. Just wondering if you have had any feedback from members who have had the metal thermostat housing fitted for a while. Thanks for the attachment it looks a great piece of kit. regards Sil. Your comments or member comments would be greatly appreciated.

I have it but yet to fit it as my current plastic thermostat seems ok..however, I would say it is an excellently enginerred piece of kit and I have complete confidence in it. It makes a lovely shiny ornament until fitting too....:D

Kaiser's housing has been on mine for a couple of weeks now. No problems at all and coolant level is exactly as Lates & Pete left it. I'd rather trust the metal one than the silly plastic MGR effort.

The only thing is that (on fitting) the O ring was too fat/chunky and wouldn't go in without snagging. After changing it for the standard MGR one (L&P had a bag of 'em) everything was fine.

Ask Lates for the p/n of the MGR ring (the one on right in your pic http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...1&d=1253960298). If Lates & Pete are fitting your Kaiser housing, they'll know about this already.

CDU 3585 iirc ;)

There you go Sil, told you so!

(PS. Lates - you still haven't told me how much I owe you!!)

Wish my memory was as good as your honesty Simon, call me tomorrow beween 6-7 and will sort it there and then, thanks for the jog :o

.........................:poke::D

Thanks for that guys , I will order one, hopefully arrives in a couple of weeks,and thanks Pete for part number.

Hi Guys

I have had mine on order for a while.

Has anyone had any issues with delivery?

I've been in touch with Guido but we are both scratching heads as to where it has gone. It was posted on the 4Th of August. We both have tried tracking it but no joy.

Just wondering if the postal strikes have delayed it?

Anyone?

Edd

Hi Edd ordering mine tomorrow, did you send money in notes to EDIT By Simon: Address removed for security. Please only pass on addresses via email or PM for everyones security. Thanks. for yours. Just so I know I have correct address.Thanks Sil.

Apologies for that Simon, fully aware now thanks Sil

Hi Guys

My metal Thermostat arrived from South Africa today. Took a while but I think that was because of the postal strikes etc. But it was worth while the wait.

Kieser has done a very good job of manufacturing them, all Kudos to him. If anyone wants details PM me.

This is what it looks like...

http://www.mredd.me.uk/Photos/R75stuff/_DSC5163.JPG


http://www.mredd.me.uk/Photos/R75stuff/_DSC5165.JPG


http://www.mredd.me.uk/Photos/R75stuff/_DSC5164.JPG


All I have to do now is get it fitted. Fortunately I don't have any thermostat issues so there is no rush. I think this is a job beyond my scope so I am looking for someone to do it. Any suggestions in the midlands area???

I would like to take some photos of "How it's done" if I can find someone who would be willing to let me take them while they are doing it. I will then post them in this thread.

Edd

That is a fantastic idea. I am just doing HG's on mine so I would appreciate it if you keep us all posted

Malcolm

Lates - coolant has suddenly started to leak. Could it be the O ring in post 106?

See http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...870#post394870

Simon, can you get over Saturday ? Let me know your schedule via my hotmail so I can pick it up during the day tomorrow.

Call me anytime after 5 mate. Thoughts with you for tomorrow.

An air-lock will not cause water to be blown out, per se. An air lock is the result of water lost. It will never exceed the pressure of the water evaporating in the system, and will always be at the highest pressure when the engine is hot.

I can say with absolute certainty, that the water you have lost has not been lost through the pressure cap while the engine has been cold, you must have a leak in your cooling system, or the cap is not positioned right or is defective.

You have to clean all the water away, and establish from where you loose the fluid.

Good luck.

Guido - even after mopping up all the coolant in the vee, I can't pinpoint the leak because the manifolds are in the way. My guess is it's the main O ring on the thermostat housing (pic) because that section of the vee contains more coolant than the other two sections.

When fitting the metal housing (12th September) the O ring that came with it refused to go into the block without snagging, so it was replaced with the standard MGR ring which looks slightly thinner in diameter. The MGR ring didn't leak when the system was pressure tested on the 12th and I didn't notice any drop in coolant before last week. If it's not the O ring though I can't think where the main leak is coming from.

Btw - I first found the leak last Wednesday (daytime) when I spotted two separate puddles on the floor. Two puddles indicates that the leak had been going on for at least two days. The vee was full of coolant and the expansion tank was low but not empty. On Wednesday night I did a 1-2 mile trip, then re-checked the level with the engine warm - again the tank was low but not empty. By Thursday morning, the tank was completely empty and the area around it was soaked in coolant. As you say, the only explanation for this second leak is I left the cap slightly unscrewed - or the cap itself has suddenly gone kaput (highly unlikely).

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...c84fd792a7.jpg

Just had another look with the engine idling at full temp and found two other things (apart from the leaks).

1. Hissing sound coming from the breather pipe (the one with the red collar connector) on front cylinder bank (KV6). Turns out the end of the black plastic pipe is cracked. Does anyone know the p/n and cost of the pipe?

2. Loud intermittent clatter coming from the battery end of the manifold (deafening if 'listening' with a screwdriver). Noise sometimes goes away then sometimes comes back again! Approx location of listening point is shown in Haynes 4B*10 pic 12.5a which appears to be the purge valve. Is the clattering noise normal (I've never heard it before) or has something else gone kaput?

Purge valve doe smake a noise.comes and goes so no worries there
Is it the main T piece assembly that has come adrift ? I can get one in no problems.

Simon bear in mind there are problems sourcing the bent pipe from the Stat kit. Any vehicles due in will not get a stat change atm.

Lates - no, it's the breather pipe that goes into the red push-in connector on front cam cover (pipe-end cracked at push-in connector) - see no1 here: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID001700 Gary at Rimmers has got one for me - I'm not sure whether to get no2 as well (?)

PS. This purge valve sounds like a drunk kicking a tin can round Tesco's car park.

No need for item no2. More concerned about the lack of bent pipes atm.

Which bent pipe Lates? Do you mean the one on the left in pic, or a hose?

Btw, if it's the main O ring that's slow-leaking :confused: (Pete changed Kaiser's one for a slimmer MGR version) we don't know what diameter Kaiser's original was - which could be a snag on Saturday.

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...c84fdb6b16.jpg

The pipe on the left shaped "r" is the one I cannot get in. Sent pete a text ref the "fatter O rings"

PS to above. I ran the engine up to full temp again tonight and left it idling for 10 minutes - no sudden increase in leak. So I think whatever is leaking is doing it slowly (so far).

PPS. Can't see properly with the manifolds on - but I don't think it's the sealed joint in the metal housing (top to bottom joint on main body).

Could be one of the black plastic clips though (on the pipes) - but I can't see them properly either.

Worse case scenario ( which is not my top option ) is to revert back to plastic if there are no obvious signs of component failure.

Has Pete emptied the rubbish bin - Kaiser's O ring might still be in there.

Yes that's an option - but we're stuffed if the plastic bent pipe is not available at the mo.

Don't lose any sleep on it Si - thats my job ;)

Ok Lates - I'll email Kaiser though and ask him if he has a measurement spec on the 'fat ring' (sounds a tad rude don't ya think :D).

Kaiser has replied to my email and advises that the original O ring on the metal housing is imperial but nominal size is 30mm x 3.5mm.

Lates & Guido

I just had another go at pinpointing the leak and even with a tiny mirror and bright narrow-beam LED light I couldn't see anything due to the manifolds. So I dried the vee out completely using a piece of sponge on a stick, drove it for 20 miles then had another look. This time all sections of the vee are bone dry and there's no change in the tank level.

This gets weirder and weirder. :confused:

Will check it again when the engine has cooled down.

Sounds rather odd to say the least. Echos of when the stat was originally fitted :shrug:

I think the best course of action tomorrow is to drain off the freeze, vac the system down - check, then pressurise the system up and check.See what the results are there first. If no signs of apparant leakage is obvious I think it may be best to replace the O seals "for the sake of it" - belt and braces kind of thought process.

Ok Lates.

It might start leaking again on the way over to you, which would be handy in a perverse sort of way - there again it might not leak at all, in which case we'd better have a cup of tea while we all think about it.

Might be an idea to get the kettle on for 3.30-ish :D

PS. Fancy changing the cambelt on a Ford Focus (not mine)?

Let me know the spec of the Focus, done a couple of them in the past.
See you tomorrow, bring spare water ! ;)

Pretty sure the Focus is a standard 1.8 petrol (2001) - not 100% certain though, will find out!

As for the H20 - I have hired an RAF bowser. That should do the trick. ;)

Evening all,
We believe we have "gotten" to the bottom of this mystery. Certain body parts are crossed quite tightly, when Simon comes back in all smiley I will breath out and say tfft ! lol.

We all await with baited breath to discover what the problem was?
Are all the sealing surfaces machined & smooth on the new Aluminium parts or do we have to prepare them ourselves?

Compatibility isssues...

So that's it then, Simon pee'd in the vee???:D

I got my Metal Thermostat fitted today by Dr Dave. I drove down to his place in Summerset, he fitted it for me and then I drove back. A round trip of 290 miles.

No problems the car ran fine both ways. Very impressed with it and Dr Dave was suitably impressed as well.

Now I need never worry about coolant loss and the thermostat failing.

Thanks Guido for a fantastic product.

Edd

Just read the above posts regarding a possible leak near the new thermostat.

The picture below shows what Dr Dave did when he fitted mine today. He put some sealant gunk on the O ring before he inserted it.

So far no leaks.

Dunno if this helps or not???

http://www.mredd.me.uk/Photos/rover7...Thermo_025.jpg

Edd

Original spring hose clips re used ?

Evening chaps :)

It turned out the leak was coming from the incredibly silly MGR 'spring' type hose clip on 'the fat pipe' (pic). Very tricky to spot - we only found it after Pete pumped the system up to a large number of psi's whereupon it started dripping slowly.

This explains the 2-week delay before I originally spotted any sign of a leak - i.e. a lot of slow drips eventually fills up the RH chamber on the top of the block, then it overflows into the other two chambers and finally it runs down onto the undertray & floor.

A proper old fashioned jubilee clip on the fat pipe seems to have stopped it. The outside of 'the fat pipe' isn't machined smooth on the metal housing so a re-used MGR spring clip (or even a new one) is not a good idea. Jubilee clips provide a better grip. (Ditto for 'the thin pipe').

NB. The O ring was a wild goose chase.


http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...c84fcf3b4d.jpg

Evening Si, good to hear all the fluids are staying internal now.I have asked the Q - which clips were used.