Mac and Windows.
 

I am on Mac OS X 10.7.5 and when I updated the O.S I lost VMware Fusion 3, Windows XP and Microsoft Word.

I loaded up VMware Fusion 5 which enables Windows to run on a Mac.

I have just upgraded to Photoshop Lightroom 4 which does not recognise XP and wondered which is the easist and better version of Windows for me to get, so that I can run Windows again on the Mac?

I did a search for the answer on the forum but there is nothing up to date.

Thanks

Just wondering why you don't use boot camp?

Running a Macbook Air with Mountain Lion and have dual boot with Windows 7, works fine although I rarely use it. Had dual boot with Snow Leopard too but think I ran XP in those days.

Lightroom 4 is available for Mac through the Apple Store (iTunes).

Regards

Thanks - I have not tried Boot Camp. Maybe I ought to.

I have LR 4 on board and it is not compatible with XP but works with the Lion software OK. It is not an easy photoshop to use and I have been having to watch Adobe TV tutorials just to learn the basics.

I had some useful photo editing programmes on XP even though they are years old. One being Live Pix 2.0 which I used for twiddling and tweaking.

Given that Windows 7 works ok on your system, I will see if I can get it for mine.

I migrated to Macs from Windows just over 2 years ago and so I am still learning.

Thanks Vitesse for your help :)

Boot camp & Windows 7 is your best option.

I'm always a bit puzzled though why a Mac user would want to have Windows !

Because windows is better?

Never really understood why there was an entire industry setup to get Windows running on a Mac when you could just buy a faster, cheaper, better Windows PC to start with, that is a least as stable (if not more), more functional and more compatible.

It is that some of the photo editing programmes I want to use operate only on the Windows platform and it is more convenient for me to have both systems in one unit. I have not thought that Windows or Macs were better than each other. Or that my tin of baked beans is better than the next tin. I have never used boot camp and will have to look it up. Thanks guys.

My wife has a little ASUS ee with Windows and it is very slow. If I had to get a Windows laptop it would need to be faster and more powerful. Something I have not thought of doing. Now I am in a quandary .... Boot camp or a what lol

An ASUS EeePC will be slow with anything on it, it runs a VERY slow atom processor that would get its butt handed to it on a plate by a phone processor. Ive been there myself, ditched it for a CULV (Celeron ultra low voltage) processor instead, battery lasts just as long, runs much much faster.

£300-350 laptops are pretty decent these days.

Please tell me that's a joke?:D

Do you have anything in mind in particular as I am out of touch with Windows. I have 320 Gb on the mac and would want similar or more on a Windows. Thanks

Because schools/work (when it's working) use window 7 toilet and you need to be able to read/communicate etc

Not at all, windows is superior to MacOS for a number of reasons.

It has more software that works on it, MacOs traditional advantage, image manipulation and video processing is long long gone now all the software is on windows and the hardware is the same. Windows has more third party support, its very stable as windows 7, crashes are almost unheard of. Malware is a user issue, not a windows issue. Ive seen macs taken down pretty easily, they are far from immune. I have no third party antivirus on my PC but ive had no malware issues for a decade. Ive had Apple users try to justify the superiority for years and they have always failed because their arguments make no sense or are based on old information. In the end the last argument they have is that a Mac is 'pretty'. Well, iMacs are ugly as hell, Macbooks are ok, but i prefer the Dell Ultrabooks, they are just a little more industrial, and slightly less bland.

The problem is people compare cheap nasty PCs made with parts selected for cheapness, not compatability, with a £2k Mac and say windows is rubbish, but a windows PC with the same hardware as the Mac would be way cheaper and just as stable if not more so and more upgradable, more flexible, more personal.

There are loads..

http://www.ebuyer.com/392900-toshiba...skc9e-02300jen
http://www.ebuyer.com/398047-lenovo-b570-laptop-n2f28uk

http://www.ebuyer.com/397413-asus-a5...op-a54c-sx209s

Windows 7? Sounds very good from what I've heard but isn't it about time? I've always been a windows user, for years and it's always breaking down/crashing etc etc, if they were a car company they would have gone out of business long ago, I have now bought a Mac mini (only one I could afford)after using my son's apple laptop and it's a breath of fresh air, it works, simple as that, all my windows PC's have gone wrong since '95 n before and I do not trust them.
My brother complained his friend had a Mac for 7 years and when he when to update it said his Mac was too old, he thought this was terrible, thing is all my PC'S have slowed to nothing within 2 let alone 7!

Again this sounds like a user issue not a platform one and you are comparing an OS with a propitiatory and limited device. Windows XP, released in 2001 was very good and stable and is still perfectly usable today.

A ten year old mac isnt much good for anything because it will be an obsolete PowerPC powered device.

I have a fairly old homemade PC running windows 7 and a laptop running Windows 8. The PC is at its core 5 years old and has never gone wrong, never crashes and will run Windows 8 more than perfectly well, if i so chose to migrate. Simple maintenance is all thats needed to keep it fresh and working, its not hard, and macs used for the full range of things a computer is used for will also require maintenance.

Basic maintenance? my mother has a laptop bought brand new 6 months ago and it already gets error messages when you turn it on? Why should the user have to sort that? It shouldn't happen.
I realize you have a far greater knowledge of computers than I do and I respect that, however I judge things on actions and results and my experience of windows and that of many of my colleagues is not good, you would appear to be an exception to the rule.....in my opinion

What error messages? Could this not be windows responding to a hardware issue? Believe it or not Macs also fail, but MacOS doesnt deal with issues that well, its tends to just lock and kills your data. To say Macs dont go wrong is just plain wrong. The reason the internet isnt as full of complaints like it is with windows is that window PCs outsell Mac 20 to 1, and thats just the pre-made OEM units not the homemade ones or the pirate ones.

I'm well aware they go wrong, not saying they are bullet proof, just my experience is Windows is a nightmare, fair point hardware, but it's all in the package as far as I'm concerned.
Girl on my watch bought a 2k sony laptop same time as her hubby got a Macbook, her's was going wrong within 6 months and is now ********,
his is still going strong three yrs later and with two tours of Afghan under it's belt, incidentally she has now bought a Macbook.

Again proves nothing, if the issue wasnt windows but the hardware then it has nothing to do with Windows, it it was windows then she should have restored it to factory with the on-board recovery. Macs have had plenty of issues, especially battery issues, which being sealed units the user cannot fix. Sony arent what they used to be. If it was going wrong she should have got it repaired or replaced under warranty.

I grant you Apple have good aftercare, but dont you just pay for it!

But the point is it is a windows based laptop and it went wrong? Why should she have to replace it? it shouldn't go wrong. Yes they are expensive and 25% is for the name but Audis cost more than fords

No, its an Intel based PC, just like the Mac is, the difference is one runs OSX the other Windows. They are all subject to failure. Macs fail and need repair as well, the failure rate is really no better than for other premium laptops.

Mac dont have unique components, they use the same stuff as you find in any laptop. Remember Apple do not invent hardware, everything in a Mac is made by someone else, Apple simply selects the parts, designes the box to put them in and gets Asian slave labour to assemble it.

Audis are less reliable than fords, which kind of proves my point.

Yeah, that's my point !

I know that's bound to upset the Mac fans/users out there.

Apart from Windows XP (which more than stood the test of time & is still used by many people including me) Windows 7 has turned out to be a great O/S (we'll forget Vista !!)

I run XP & 7 on all my systems & it's great.

There's no way I would buy a Mac.

My next challenge is to find a copy of 7 which is OEM and then try it out on the mac. I will also research some of the smaller win laptops. Cabin luggage is restricted to 10 kg and to carry x 2 laptops plus camera stuff and this and that will have a bearing on my choices. I did like the look of XP and it was easy to use. I even built my own PC in the old days and did upgrades. I cannot do this on the Mac which has a life term of 5 years. My other gripe is that it cost me over 2k to buy. It is not as though I am flushed.

If you dont mind small there are some of the compact notebooks out there. My laptop is an 11.6 inch HP. The only problem is the smaller they are the more they cost it seems.. I guess it depends if you need a built in DVD drive.

windows is superior for a number of reasons.......
 

Yes of course it is. Windows gives you hours of software trials and a greater understanding of the individual components that make up a machine that is more often than not a random collection of parts which should work together but often don't.

You then get to find out about viruses, malware, freezing, restarts etc but if you want a machine that will just work and past the test of time then choose a manufacturer that has control not only of the hardware but also the software.

Sure some people enjoy carrying around a brick of a machine with a battery life of minutes and a screen which makes you wonder where the focus control is .... but like most things in life you get what you pay for.

My stationary G5 is old but still quite capable and in daily use, any Windows machine of a similar age would.... well are there any still functional?

My Macbook Air (13" 1.7 i5 SSD) was very expensive but then again I have dual boot (but hardly used) and considering the thing weighs less than 1.5kg it's ideal when you are on the move. Best of both worlds really depending on in which you'd rather be at that given time.

If Gatekeeper wants to use a specific Windows programme then he can do, if he wants to use anything Internet based then back to OSX for safety.

Simple choice

Regards

My housemates acer laptop is 7 years old and runs perfectly fine. It needed a new battery due to the old one not holding much charge, but being a non-mac the replacement was a 10 second affair.

I still have the first PC i built, a very old 600Mhz AMD Duron powered device. It still works perfectly well. i Also have a Compaq 486 that still works, its 20 years old.

Glad you agree.

Windows doesnt have trial software at all. Windows is at least as stable as OSX, probably more so. Viruses are a user issue and macs can get them to. Safari has holes in it a mile wide. iTunes is the work of the devil.

My laptop has 10 hour battery life and delivers it.

Windows gets a bad wrap because its freely installable on any hardware, a bit like Android. Sure there are some terrible devices out there, but the best are just as good as anything Apple has. Apple doesnt sell at the low end.

Here is an example using Android. I have a friend who bought a cheap chinese Android and it was rubbish, so she bought an iPhone. She then declared Android as rubbish. Needless to say Her iPhone wasnt 100% perfect and caused issues so when her contract was up I gave her my old Galaxy S2 to use for a while to show her that it wasnt Androids fault, it was the cheap device she had. She now has a Galaxy S3, which she loves.

Its no different with PCs. There are bad ones out there, but there are some very very good ones to, ones that run far more software than any mac, cost less and are more reliable.

Another major issue i have with Macs is the 'i' thing. Every program called iSomething drives me mad. If you want to make a word really awkward and ugly to say put an 'i' in front of it.


In Gate Keepers case, since he already has a Mac, its probably better to dual boot or use some sort of virtual shell, but the best option overall is never to buy an Apple device in the first place.

Mac OS is even less secure than Windows !

The main reason Mac's appear not to het hacked it because in comparison to Windows users, there are so few.

The Myth that Mac OS is more secure than Windows is exactly that............a myth !!

I despise the fact that any product made by Apple forces you to use specific software.

I love my iPod but I detest iTunes.

Can of worms...A lot of the special software I use at Uni (Computer Science Degree) needs it - i.e. Visual Studio etc.


For a long time I was a "Mac-hater" because on paper it just doesn't add up. I recently bought a MacBook Pro and i'm changed... it's not perfect, I'm not a fanboy, but I really like the speed / stability and the way the little bits about the OS work together (i.e. gestures - rubbish in Windows, awesome in OSX).

I wouldn't ever replace my desktop with a Mac, but I think I'd struggle to buy anything but an Apple laptop from now on - it's definitely not cheap, but for me it's worth it.iTunes is unfortunately awful no matter what platform - the only saving grace is you only *need* to use it for syncing, for everything else you can just avoid it!

I agree that Mac laptops have a place, although there are similarly designed Windows machines, like the Dell Ultrabooks which are aluminium, carbon fibre and gorilla glass, but iMacs i will never understand. They are thousands of pounds for an instantly obsolete, ugly and dull box that makes upgrading difficult. I reject the notion that they last longer and dont need upgrades. Mac users say that because they are the sort of people who would be mac users its circular reasoning. They expect to be spoon feed by Apple and dont seek to change things. Just look at the recent iPhone 5 TV ads to see the mentality of the Apple fan. Its ludicrous.

I can fully understand the Windows hate based on one of two well publicised mess-ups. Millennium was awful, but XP was great, Vista was dodgy, but 7 is almost perfect. Windows 8 will upset many, but it can be used much like Windows 7 if you dislike the new interface. I for one will use the new interface on my laptop, but not on my desktop.

7 (or 8) really doesnt ever crash of its own accord, its designed from the ground up with a mission critical core thats nothing like windows of old. Its very resistant to malware, all you need is Microsofts own Security essentials and half a brain. Norton, Mcafee etc are a waste of money and counter-productive. The sort of people who fall for malware on that combo also fall for phone and e-mail scams and maybe OSX would suit them, but trust me its not that hard to take down a mac, just from a web page, if you really want. Making Unix palatable also makes it vulnerable.

Windows is no slower than OSX for the most part, but there are one or two critical points to make that explain why, on occasion it can be. The nature of Windows means that its much safer for your data in the event of a system failure. If the power goes off or something crashes user data is much less likely to be lost. OSX is Unix based and a sudden failure is much more likely to result in data loss. Its an inherent property of Unix based OSes. Some measures have been taken to reduce the risk, but its still there in OSX and iOS

You can't disable the "new" Windows 8 Metro interface (at least - not in the release versions - you could in the beta / preview versions)

You cant disable it, but you can ignore it, just use the desktop view and create some shortcuts. There are a few start menu replacements as well. Stardock do one that looks just like the Windows 7 one and works the same way, just install and use that in desktop mode.

The Stardock one is good, but it's not perfect and it's not good as the Windows 7 start bar. It's a shame as 8 is a really fast and slick OS, it's just a shame Metro ruins it :(

I agree, but im sure someone will hack it within a few weeks and add stuff back in, they always do.
To be honest once used to it it will probably be ok, its just a very drastic change. I think not allowing autoboot to the desktop and no start menu is a mistake, but i think business pressure will reverse that because i cant see businesses liking the new interface, it certainly wouldnt fit in with my work place at all.

An interesting debate about the merits of Windows versions. For my purposes I will be going for a Windows 7 on the Mac for the reasons I have given. Thanks Rovex for the links to the laptops you had in mind which would suit my needs. Later on for me I think :)

I think Windows 7 is the best bet in this situation, the older ones can be dodgy at time, XP just is too old now and Windows 8 just isnt necessary although its actually very light and speedy.

Comparing 7/8 in which way is 8 lighter. Are we talking about resources and memory here ?

I have to say im not sure, its faster and more responsive, with more hardware acceleration, it certainly flys on my notebook, but havent checked memory usage.

I looked at the reviews in the Huff post about 8 and it is due to be launched today in ZA. Apparently a new concept for traditonal windows users to get used to and lays claim not to have any blue screens or crashes. What do I know. I think I will try 7 and wait to see what happens with 8.

To be honest 7 has no crashes or blue-screens either, its at least as stable as OSX. I havent seen a blue-screen for years that wasnt caused by a failing piece of hardware.

I have always used PC, I work with them everyday now in my new job and I'm glad that windows has lots of problems as it keeps me in a job. One thing I have noticed is that the problems I come across daily are usually down to user error and not the software.

Ive always found Windows to be a good OS and most of the problems with Drivers and such like is down to the hardware manufactures not Microsoft. If they done send the drivers to Microsoft to be signed they cant be verified. Thats not Microsoft's fault.

Now saying that I do a lot of labs (learning all the time) and I do them on my iMac 27in as its fantastic at running virtual labs very fast. Saying that Im using 16 GB ram lol.

I did have the labs running on my Dell XPS with 12 GB ram but its not a squick and easy as on the iMac.

I was an avid Apple hater until I went and seen one of my mates who is a systems admin. He convinced me Apple was the way to go and after watching and trying out his set up I had to agree.

I'm happy with my PC (currently running SBS 2012) and equally happy with the iMac. Just now need to convince the wife that I need an extra 27 in Monitor to rig up to the mac. Never enough desktop space lol.

The wife how ever hates the iMac but thats down to her not knowing her way around mountain lion. She will get used to it.

As for the Win 7 to OSX debate I would say in my opinion that Win 7 beats OSX in lots of ways , Software but mainly Games Win 7 will always come out top in the games area to be honest as there is just so much more choice. All be it you do need a decent rig to run the newer titles but that progress for you.

Don't most Macs have Solid state hard drives? For the price they want they should! ! Makes a huge difference in a PC. Mine boots in 15 seconds and Firefox, a notoriously slow program to open, is almost instantaneous.

I agree for the price they should but Apple do charge mad prices. It cost me £50 to upgrade the Ram 10 16gb Apple wanted £320 :mad:

My Macbook Air has SSD and quite swift, boots in about 7 secs. 15 secs is probably more than my 9 year old G5.

My benchmark tends to be photoshop which is up in 2 secs.

Andyd358: get her an apple tv and she'll quickly get to love mountain lion with the airplay feature, and you get to use the 42" widescreen (or whatever TV you've got) as a monitor.

Good luck

Complete cold boot including bios? I dont think so, its nearer 12-15 seconds and only because the Air is so light on hardware, my rather low powered HP notebook with an SSD only takes about 18 seconds. A fully powerhouse PC has a lot more to initialise and i havent disabled a lot of checks the bios can perform, that would speed it up even more

As is said some speed advantage OSX sometimes has is in the fact that it keeps some programs semi-open in RAM, nice, until it crashes or loses power, then its a problem. Its not immune to crashes..

Correction - As I'm now running bootcamp I timed the Macbook from that point which was about 7 secs.

A quick read of the net gives me a figure of 12 secs from cold http://www.laptopmag.com/review/lapt...inch-2012.aspx way ahead of the competition.

Disabling checks? Sorry I just use the machines and haven't a clue what you're on about. I just know the thing works, works & works.

But I've only had the machine since February and will let you know if it ever displays classic PC syndromes and crashes or freezes.

Regards

Its not a race, but since your making it so, an Air is a very simple device, it doesnt have the hardware in it that needs initialising like a full PC. My PC has 4 hard drives, 3 of which are large slow (2TB) mechanical storage drives than need to spin up and a Blu-Ray drive that needs initialising and checking. That alone take a few seconds. The air has none of that, most iMacs or even Power Macs have nothing like that.

In most computer bioses there are checks that are performed that you can disable, such as for extra new drives etc or other new hardware, i havent disabled them, the air doesnt even have most of them, because its a sealed unit, all that adds time, yet im still only 3 seconds behind.

Ive used a G5 it didnt take less than 15 seconds to boot, more like 30+. Wake from hibernation may be, any PC can do that. In the UK Apple had an advertisement for the G5 banned because they claimed it was 'the worlds fastest, most powerful personal computer'. It was banned because, well, it wasnt.

As ive already explained Macs use the same hardware as PCs now, there is no advantage in that, and OSX isnt any faster than Windows most of the time. On the occasion it is its due to risky practices with caches that WILL kill your data in the event of a failure. These failures do happen and the risk isnt worth taking when the device gets old and its battery get unpredictable. Having a sealed in battery in a laptop is idiotic. Its style over substance.

I always found this Apple claim of 'it just works' laughable. I suppose in its own way it does, but so do the alternatives, usually better, and with more choice and freedom, for less money. Every Apple device ive used has been a frustrating, limiting experience.

A race - thought you brought up the subject of SSDs.

And yes it might be laughable to you but in my experience it's true. A recent case at my local college which is a PC environment:

The Lexmark laser printer suddenly died and documents needed to be printed. In the corner somewhere was a dust covered HP Photosmart. The PC users tried using the HP but there was a driver problem. I connected the Macbook, selected the printer and printed.

And this is how the majority of users want a computer to work. They don't want to fiddle around with settings, drivers, etc they just want the thing to work just as we do with cars.

You have your opinions and I mine and we are never going to agree. So let's agree to wish Gate Keeper (the original poster) luck in his efforts to work in a dual environment.

Regards

My point with the SSD was that most macs have them, but so do PCs of similar and slightly cheaper price. You cannot compare a mac, which is ONLY high end to a cheap PC, its unfair. A Pc with an SSD will match a Mac, no problem whatsoever, and does so without compromising data integrity.

Ive never had a windows 7 driver issue, ever, everything ive ever connected has worked without needing even the manufacturers drivers. HP have a universal driver for 7 that works with ALL photosmart printers, the basic version is integrated into windows 7.

Whilst I am in South Africa I will stand a better chance of getting an original Windows 7 DVD than I would elsewhere in Africa. I would not like to take a chance in getting one sent out from the UK.

Thanks for your thoughts gentlemen on the merits of windows/macs :}

Haven't used windows for years, sounds like its ok now (about time). When I stopped using windows I think they were at XP, which I thought sucked ass. I have used a mac ever since, never had a crash, never suffered from bloat. Never had to reformat once. I recently stuck a ssd in there and my macbook pro boots in 10 seconds. I can change the battery in it, just don't need to.

Trouble is the definition of 'boot' varies. True boot time is the time it takes to cold boot (not standby or hibernate) from the instant you press the button until all activity stops once in the OS. Windows has a boot trace program that can do that, i dont know about a mac. Just getting to the desktop doesnt count, it must have loaded everything and be idle.

Any number of things can slow it, including how many programs you have run at start-up.

Yes everything is loaded and ready to go, bit silly these fanboy type topics. I like my mac, you like your PC, that's all that really matters. sounds like there is no difference between the platforms now.

I am happy that I have been pointed in the right direction for operating windows on a mac. Thanks peeps for all of your contributions.

Can a moderator please close this thread?

Thanks :)