E10 Fuel Being Brought In Sooner!
 

Looks like it's being brought in for next year.

The problem is if your vehicle was built before 2002 then your advised not to use it.

Anyone with a classic car that uses a carburettor has no chance.

Normal unleaded E5 will be classed as a premium fuel and will be priced as such.

So will diesel be increased in price as well.

That means food and everything else that gets delivered will also increase in price!

I'm all for doing what we can but it will be at great expense to us.

This has been discussed on several forums including the Reliant Scimitar of which I was a member for 13 years due to having 2. Fuel lines will need changing and carbs modified. After a while it will dissolve the rubber fuel lines but replacements are available. I started modifying my Scimitar about 6 years ago ready for the change as it has been a long time under discussion by the Government.
I’m no scientist but I’ve seen the damage done by higher ethanol content in petrol and it can at its worst be dangerous if your fuel lines are not up to it. There may well be a boom in the restoration market.

Does anyone have a horse for sale?:duh: Nah! they will up the tax on straw!:getmecoat:

Yes, I read that it was highly corrosive and damaging to seals, metals and gasket seals.

Over 1 million vehicles will be affected by this with around 350,000 removed from our roads.

Plus they give off methane gas.:eek: :dung:

With a few modifications our petrol engines cope with ethanol - ask Dorchester2 in France who runs his car on ethanol.
I ran my old SD1 Vitesse a whole summer on E85, at the time ethanol was cheaper - and then the Swedish government raised the price. Did make one mistake forgetting to upgrade a short length of fuel hose under the car and drained the fuel tank very quickly. Don't think the 75 uses the same rubberised hoses.

Regards

So do a lot of the types who frequent the big house where these decisions are made!

Yes, you are right there.

I reckon we should give the Government a bit of earache on this because what this tiny island does isn't going to make any difference to the global atmosphere with the 3 largest nations not giving a stuff, America, China and Russia.

Nor what we do will have an impact.

Better off buying a boat!

I cannot agree it would not make a difference. Surly any reduction in harmful emissions makes a difference, even if so slight, that all it does is to slow down the coming of the end result

macafee2

Does that mean that the 2003 on 75 / ZT have different fuel lines, plus anything else needed.

If so, surely 2002 and earlier models can be retrofitted.

Or have I missed something?

Mike

Would make a difference to air pollution in our Towns and Cities but I doubt it would make any difference to the world.

The Polar ice cap is still going to melt, that is a fact, it is not slowing down.

There is currently a fossil fuel survey on line regarding the availability of petrol and diesel, although only Classic Car Weekly has pointed it out! The problem with the Internet is that lawmakers can get away with consultations because whilst they may be available on the web, what chance has anyone of finding where they are, or when they cease!

The 2 links given are:-
tinyurl.cpm/vblrvun

and

[email protected]

PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD AND MAKE A FUSS.

My wife's Rover 25, my MGZS both have plastic fuel injectors.
I believe they will both suffer.
I have a classic Mini, plastic float in the carb, not sure what I'm going to be able to do with that.
Plus I already end up changing the fuel line every two years on average because the rubber cracks.

I'm not a happy bunny. E85 or higher will effectively scrap my fleet off.

This is what Footman James are saying.

Early SU carbs had brass floats. They are still available.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/18002564944...SABEgJSGfD_BwE

OK so can folks please explain who is affected by this the problem and what are the options?


I have a 2002 plate KV6. Will I roger it if I run on E10 regular unleaded, and what would I have to have done to it, and what would it cost, for me to make it compatible?


Supplementary question - will premium fuel also become E10 or just economy? I generally use Esso or Shell (Vpower) premium as the better economy offsets the higher pump price so that overall cost per mile is about equal but with the benefit of a cleaner fuel. If premium fuel isn't going to have ethanol added maybe we just need to accept that we will have to get used to spending more at the pump when we need to fill up, but we will refill less frequently as we will get better economy, in which case what's the problem?

Anyone whose car has a carburetor and many that had issues with running on unleaded.

I expect Rover's petrol engines will be okay.

However as to whether you will get more to the gallon is unknown.

If your car was built from 2011 then yes you will benefit but the older cars I doubt it.

Does anyone have a Rover built in or after 2011?

Benefit?

With my experience of ethernol fuels on my old motorbikes, it's a real PITA.

And it evaporates at an alarming rate if you don't use it relatively quickly.

I totally agree with Mike.

It affects more modern machines too, with plastic fuel tanks.
I have a Triumph 955i which I only use ethanol free petrol in, otherwise it would end up looking like this

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1e04b26b_z.jpg

And that is at the current 5% :eek:

A friend of mine has a lovely Bimota, that is until the tank was attacked by ethanol causing it to swell up and split the paint.

Horrible stuff! :mad:

Is there any chance of an additive to counteract it?
I have a 98 MGf, a metro turbo and just recently started restoration of a maestro EFi any idea what mods this will require to run on it.
This lot are really pi$$ing me off as we also have multi fuel stove and wont be able to get coal or reasonably priced logs soon.
May resort to burning the tyres off the cars that won't work soon!

I'm even more confused now. I thought we were discussing whether the Rover 75 petrol engines can safely be run on E10. All I've managed to establish so far is that it's not a good idea to stick it in your motorbike, and I don't have a motorbike. So can anyone help me with my original point? And whether this would also mean premium fuel would also move to becoming E10 since if not there's a simple solution to anyone not already using premium fuel in their Rovers?

It is just crazy what's happening tbh
My parents both retired just as my mother got 'the letter' saying she wouldn't get her pension until she's 65, or even a bus pass as a token gesture!!
I pay for anything that ever needs maintaining and upkeep.
Just bought them a new cooker, new kitchen and a new boiler, bought them 4 new tyres and MOT'd their 25!
And now, basically they're being told they can't have a car either!
That's just brilliant given they live 8 miles from anywhere and have no money ffs :duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh::duh:

Good evening, gentlemen,



In April, 2012 the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs published the results of their testing programme on the efficacy of corrosion inhibition additives for petrol containing ethanol. At that time, additives were available from Miller's Oils, Flexolite and Frosts. Although Miller's offered three varieties of additives, two of them were mated with lead replacement, which makes them NO, NOs as far as our cars are concerned. All three were expensive, adding 3.3p(Flexolite) to 17.5p (Miller's) to the cost of one litre of fuel! Unfortunately, those additives did nothing to protect elastomers, polymers or plastics. Currently, I believe Viton is the only reliable replacement material for rubber-based items, such as O-rings and pipes. The whole background info can be found here: www.fbhvc.co.uk/fuels


Derek.

I was surprised on reading an article to see that cars up to about 2000 reg might be adversely affected .
I had thought it was older cars than this ! Does anyone know for sure if our cars do in fact have any components which could be bothered by it ?

Back again,


I've just read the Footman James commentary, via the link in Post #14. It reminded me that 'classic and cherished' cars generally perform lower annual mileages than contemporary reps and commuter vehicles. Stored under adverse conditions, the ethanol decomposes to form acids among other things. A tank of fuel can last me for three months, and often does. That is another factor to consider in the damage potential of E10, or even E5 which, I'm informed, most fuel companies used to dose with an inhibitor. It would be useful to know whether it still is so treated.



Derek.

As I mentioned they are still going to be selling E5 fuel but no doubt at a higher cost.
Thankfully this year at least the fuel duty is staying the same.
My ZT runs on diesel and I know how much the Government likes my car!

I know that American cars from the 1930s could run on unleaded without too much trouble as most had ceramic valve seats but as to whether they can run on E10, I honestly don't know.

You're going to have to explain to me how a higher compression tolerance before pre-ignition in fuel is going to increase your mpg in any way. I doubt our ECUs are adapting the ignition timing somehow.


Re: ethanol. Welcome to "classic" ownership and the use of fuel additives. I'm sure somebody will be along to sell you more expensive pipes soon. ;)

Classic Motor Services (CMS) will convert any car to run on E10 for £710 (article in this weeks' Classic Car Weekly). I shall wait and see what develops.

No doubt that this will generate a lot of profit for some!

Once again we come to the old question:- why do all these upgrades, changes to fuel etc, have to cost more money? I will tell you why. Because we all put up with the rubbish that’s comes from every direction to screw you for more money. They say money is the root of all evil, and certainly the older I get, I can see what is ment.E10:- according to what I have read, it evaporates quicker than petrol or derv, which equals less mpg. Now that’s going to make someone who supplies the rubbish a lot more money than a gallon of either diesel or petrol. A new replacement parts system will spring up to replace/ mend the damage it will do to anyone with an older vehicle. Or better still, you will be forced to buy an EV in place of your present car. Who knows what the ‘brains’ are thinking up to screw us all with.

I wonder who decided 2002 was the 'cut-off' year. :shrug: The RAC mentions it but doesn't say why that particular year was chosen. https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/e...it-affect-you/

Maybe all fuel pipes & hoses made before midnight on 31/12/01 will dissolve in E10 fuel and all fuel pipes & hoses made after midnight won't. :D

Exactly ! :}
I suspect this is at best a rather vague generalisation :shrug:
Certainly doesn't help us decide if we have a problem with our cars or not .

Update For You!
 

Information is from Auto Express and emails I receive from MG Car Clubs.

This E10 Consultation from FBHVC is worth reading to start with.

On the ACEA Website they provide a PDF to download of all the makes of vehicles that cannot run on E10 fuel.

From everything that I have read about E10 I would take it that our cars cannot run on E10.

The alternative is to run our vehicles on Super Unleaded as that is the only E5 fuel that will be available!
Apparently this will be not impact on the owners due to cost because Super Unleaded is dearer, so I'm presuming that it will be at the same price as ordinary E5.
This is still in the Consultation process.

The Jaguar Land Rover section download on ACEA Website states that E10 can be used in all JLR engines starting from model year 1996. Presumably that includes all K series then?:shrug:

I saw that but are you willing to try?

Because it can be an expensive mistake if your are wrong.

One would assume that is so for the engine , but what about the various gadgets in the fuel tank , and the delivery hoses ? :shrug:

Surely if ACEA members use phrases like "all models" and "all vehicles", they're referring to the whole fuel system and not just the engine itself.

Our in-tank fuel pumps appear to be made by BMW (pic) and the BMW section of the ACEA download says: All petrol engine BMW models are cleared for the use of E10 petrol regardless of their year of manufacture. ...

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...f8d0d4e0b7.jpg

Land Rover section says: E10 petrol is cleared for use in all Land Rover vehicles with petrol engines starting from model year 1996. This must include the KV6 because it was used in Discovery models from 2001 to 2006.

Maybe former technicians know ...
 

Dear all,

This is a big discussion going on. Maybe former technicians from the MG-Rover company can definitely clear this issue. Anybody who know former technicians? KMaps maybe knows former collegues who can clear this?

I have a strong feeling that where the Rover 25 was originally developed during the cooperation with Honda and the Rover 75 was developed guided by BMW (using a lot of parts also used by BMW and Landrover) it should not be a problem. But knowing is better than guessing.

Kind regards

I suspect it will be the same as when Unleaded was introduced, there were even TV programs on explaining all our older cars will be junk with a few months with out the lead they ''NEED''.Did that happen? Most engines coped with it perfectly well and the ones that didn't have some toughened valve seats fitted that probably needed doing anyway. Most people wont even be aware there is a change in the fuel.

Some countries have been using higher concentrations of Ethanol for years with little or no problems. Worse case will be some parts will need replacing in the fuel system but are probably due or even over due replacement anyway. My guess would be that our cars will be fine, BMW were well aware of Ethanol being used around the world so it will probably not be a problem.

If you don't want to spend the money ''upgrading'' your fuel system just use Super Unleaded , it will cost you about £5 a tank extra.

Yes but where it gets interesting is places like Northern Ireland and Ireland.

Super unleaded is rare enough in most petrol stations here, and in the south, jesus, if you can find a pump your looking close to €1.50 a litre at times.

With Topaz (bought over shell here) and Circle K (bought over almost every independent now) being your only real choice in South, and up North we only have BP, Sainsburys and any independent station who also buy it from BP / sainsburys.

I havnt seen super unleaded in a maxol in 10 years here and Tesco / Asda don't stock super here also.

Its an absolute nightmare. So I can see this causing even more hassle.

If they can figure out an additive to protect older fuel lines etc they will be onto a winner.