V6 safe postion

jn12 · 7th February 2012, 16:07

Hi,

Just after a bit of advice regarding the safe timing postion on the KV6. Crank is aligned to arrow above the crank sprocket however at the exhaust cam end the arrows do not meet up

Thinking that who ever was last in here has aligned these up wrong...?

Regards
John

kaiser · 7th February 2012, 16:27

You are right.
When the engine is in the safe position, you can lock it with a pin through the bell housing, into the flex plate/flywheel.
I would lock it there, just to be sure it is indeed where it should be. There are dimensions on the little bolt you use to do that in Haynes. I made a little rod like described, and it holds the engine very well in position.
Here all is safe, and no valves can get damaged, irrespective how you turn the cams.
Also in this position, as you correctly note, the notches on the rear sprockets must be in line.
On your picture they are not.
Hold the front sprocket with a suitable tool (make one up, if you need, make sure you have a long arm to make opposing the forces easy, or make it rest against something solid, like a friendly neighbor!!) , while loosening the bolt, then turn the cam with the back sprocket until the marks are in a line. Lock the front. All can be done with the front belt in place, although the rear belt on the affected two sprockets must come off.
Not rocket science at all. Take copious pictures and make many marks, including the way the cambelt turns!
Job done.
The torque on the front is substantial, and you should make sure the sprocket in front is held, so as not to transfer the torque through the camshaft

jn12 · 7th February 2012, 17:35

Thank you for your reply kasier, thought somthing was a miss! how could someone fail to spot that they do not align when they fitted the new belt?

I know how you feel about the MGR tools but I am going to use them. I have a feeling the timing is out anyway so going to reset and hopefully take that doubt out of my mind.

I have not read the procedure for the rear belts yet but does anyone know if I will have a problem using the tools since these marks do not align??

Regards
John

COLVERT · 7th February 2012, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jn12

Hi,

Just after a bit of advice regarding the safe timing postion on the KV6. Crank is aligned to arrow above the crank sprocket however at the exhaust cam end the arrows do not meet up

Thinking that who ever was last in here has aligned these up wrong...?

Regards
John

I can see two notches but no arrows.

RN3212 · 7th February 2012, 18:14

If you use the Search this Forum facility and look for "Guess what I'll be doing this weekend" you'll find a brilliant How To by Gadget Boy.I did my belts by his method,albeit without the Tools,and it all went very well.

jn12 · 8th February 2012, 19:42

Many thanks for the replies, gadget boys thread is very good indeed however i have decided to use the tools.

Will using the special tools aid aligning the cams back to the correct position?

Thanks
John

kaiser · 9th February 2012, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jn12

Many thanks for the replies, gadget boys thread is very good indeed however i have decided to use the tools.

Will using the special tools aid aligning the cams back to the correct position?

Thanks
John

Well, come back and tell us when you find out.

Jules · 16th February 2012, 19:47

I don't use a locking pin.
As long as the engine doesn't move use the front mark you are using.
Is that pic you took before any removal of belts?
I can't imagine it was running at all well 2 teeth out!!
Must have been sputtering and way down on power?

Align both pairs of back sockets within 1/2 a tooth and then fine tune them to precisely aligned marks by the adjustment of the front sprockets by loosening the 2 front bolts .

Good luck.

PS
Make sure the 10mm Alen bolt on the tensioner is tight.
Many kits come with this only hand tight!!
The MGR manual is incorrect when it states this is factory set.

jn12 · 16th February 2012, 20:01

I have tried to pop it in the hole but it does not seem to lock no matter what i do with the crank.

Yes has been rough, sluggish and not sounded the same since the belts were done by garage about a year ago!All Belts still on car, had a noise in belt run and once stripped discovered tensioner pulley in contact with it's body and the bolt loose! Genuine MGR aswell!

So should i remove all belts together, use the locking tools at the primary end and loosen bolts, then turn the rear sprockets? the Rear bank is out as welL!

Many thanks for your help

John

Jules · 16th February 2012, 20:09

Was the mechanic registered blind!!!
Why didn't you take it back to them at the time?

Remove all belts and start again.
Your tools will work.
The rough setting for the 10mm hex hole in the body of tensioner is
4 o'clock position relative to center of tensioner.
Good luck.

7th February 2012, 18:14	#5
RN3212 Gets stuck in Rover 75 Classic SE 2.0V6 Auto Moonstone Green Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Roscommon Posts: 839 Thanks: 315 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	If you use the Search this Forum facility and look for "Guess what I'll be doing this weekend" you'll find a brilliant How To by Gadget Boy.I did my belts by his method,albeit without the Tools,and it all went very well. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

16th February 2012, 19:47	#8
Jules This is my second home ZT 260 SE Twilight and 10 other 75 ZT's :O Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Conwy NORTH WALES Posts: 11,094 Thanks: 512 Thanked 1,116 Times in 763 Posts	I don't use a locking pin. As long as the engine doesn't move use the front mark you are using. Is that pic you took before any removal of belts? I can't imagine it was running at all well 2 teeth out!! Must have been sputtering and way down on power? Align both pairs of back sockets within 1/2 a tooth and then fine tune them to precisely aligned marks by the adjustment of the front sprockets by loosening the 2 front bolts . Good luck. PS Make sure the 10mm Alen bolt on the tensioner is tight. Many kits come with this only hand tight!! The MGR manual is incorrect when it states this is factory set. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Newbies do now!! 1. Plenum drains..all 3 or 4 year dependent 2. Cooling fan..All speeds functioning 3. Bonnet cable divider block

16th February 2012, 20:09	#10
Jules This is my second home ZT 260 SE Twilight and 10 other 75 ZT's :O Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Conwy NORTH WALES Posts: 11,094 Thanks: 512 Thanked 1,116 Times in 763 Posts	Was the mechanic registered blind!!! Why didn't you take it back to them at the time? Remove all belts and start again. Your tools will work. The rough setting for the 10mm hex hole in the body of tensioner is 4 o'clock position relative to center of tensioner. Good luck. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Newbies do now!! 1. Plenum drains..all 3 or 4 year dependent 2. Cooling fan..All speeds functioning 3. Bonnet cable divider block

7th February 2012, 16:27	#2
kaiser This is my second home 75 Tourer 2.5 Auto, 1.8T, 75V8ZT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Johannesburg ZA Posts: 6,200 Thanks: 1 Thanked 859 Times in 613 Posts	You are right. When the engine is in the safe position, you can lock it with a pin through the bell housing, into the flex plate/flywheel. I would lock it there, just to be sure it is indeed where it should be. There are dimensions on the little bolt you use to do that in Haynes. I made a little rod like described, and it holds the engine very well in position. Here all is safe, and no valves can get damaged, irrespective how you turn the cams. Also in this position, as you correctly note, the notches on the rear sprockets must be in line. On your picture they are not. Hold the front sprocket with a suitable tool (make one up, if you need, make sure you have a long arm to make opposing the forces easy, or make it rest against something solid, like a friendly neighbor!!) , while loosening the bolt, then turn the cam with the back sprocket until the marks are in a line. Lock the front. All can be done with the front belt in place, although the rear belt on the affected two sprockets must come off. Not rocket science at all. Take copious pictures and make many marks, including the way the cambelt turns! Job done. The torque on the front is substantial, and you should make sure the sprocket in front is held, so as not to transfer the torque through the camshaft

7th February 2012, 17:35	#3
jn12 Gets stuck in MG ZT SE 180 V6 Sports Auto Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Posts: 938 Thanks: 74 Thanked 37 Times in 36 Posts	Thank you for your reply kasier, thought somthing was a miss! how could someone fail to spot that they do not align when they fitted the new belt? I know how you feel about the MGR tools but I am going to use them. I have a feeling the timing is out anyway so going to reset and hopefully take that doubt out of my mind. I have not read the procedure for the rear belts yet but does anyone know if I will have a problem using the tools since these marks do not align?? Regards John

8th February 2012, 19:42	#6
jn12 Gets stuck in MG ZT SE 180 V6 Sports Auto Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Posts: 938 Thanks: 74 Thanked 37 Times in 36 Posts	Many thanks for the replies, gadget boys thread is very good indeed however i have decided to use the tools. Will using the special tools aid aligning the cams back to the correct position? Thanks John

16th February 2012, 20:01	#9
jn12 Gets stuck in MG ZT SE 180 V6 Sports Auto Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Posts: 938 Thanks: 74 Thanked 37 Times in 36 Posts	I have tried to pop it in the hole but it does not seem to lock no matter what i do with the crank. Yes has been rough, sluggish and not sounded the same since the belts were done by garage about a year ago!All Belts still on car, had a noise in belt run and once stripped discovered tensioner pulley in contact with it's body and the bolt loose! Genuine MGR aswell! So should i remove all belts together, use the locking tools at the primary end and loosen bolts, then turn the rear sprockets? the Rear bank is out as welL! Many thanks for your help John