V6 Engine Removal

[Rover600]

I need to do a clutch+slave change on the tourer soon as it is slipping.
The belts are also overdue.

I’ve not done either of these on a KV6 before, but I understand they are not the easiest of jobs due to restricted access.

I have done a lot of them on other vehicles, and many Rovers, and one trick I have utilised in the past to save a lot of time and struggling is to just drop the engine out from under the vehicle - or more specifically unbolt everything and use the lift to raise the shell up from the entire engine+subframe/suspension to improve access.

Has anybody any experience of doing this on the 75?

Just trying to work out what is going to be the easiest option.

[Rover600]

Just wanted to bump this as I'm finally getting around to this after putting it on hold last year.


From what I can see dropping the entire engine and subframe seems pretty straightforward once the steering knuckle is disconnected.


The biggest issue I can see is if the AC needs disconnecting as it would add extra cost to the job.

[SD1too]

Originally Posted by Rover600

Just wanted to bump this ...

Hi John,

Sorry for not replying earlier. Changing the timing belts on your Rover 75 is not so difficult that it warrants dropping the entire engine or lifting the body clear. There's quite a bit of dismantling involved and, as you say, restricted access to things like the air con. compressor bolts which enter the engine front mounting plate which also has to come off. When you've exposed the belts, the special service tools make replacement as easy as it gets!

There's lots to read if you search the forum.

Simon

[Rover600]

I was really only considering it as I've got to do a clutch and slave cylinder at the same time - so wasn't sure if by the time I've wiggled the box off I would have been better just dropping the entire lot for better access for both jobs.


I do have the VS1290 tool which I think should do it.

[Rich in Vancouver]

The engine isn't supported by the subframe so it's not the same as many cars.
Pulling the engine out the top would be the way to go as it's a wide bl**dy thing. Doing the belts and clutch I would pull the engine and box together.
You may be able to get away with securing the A/C compressor and not pulling it with the engine to avoid depressurising the system.

[Arctic]

Hi John.
Maybe ask Matt for a few tips here below, he replaced his engine not so long back so it will be fresh in his mind hopefully.

https://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/for...d.php?t=328104

He may read this and comment anyways.

[Matt_75]

Originally Posted by Rover600

I was wondering how easy it was to remove the entire engine and box in one lump? Did you have to disconnect the A/C? - I'm pondering if it could be possible to unbolt the pump and move the condenser to the side and still have enough access.

Hi John,

In response to your question on my thread, removing the engine and gearbox was, from a technical complexity perspective, actually quite simple but was still a lot of physical work and I highly recommend bagging and labelling all the fasteners. It took us about a day to get it out but I reckon a competent mechanic with a lift could do it in half the time.

We removed the engine by removing the front end of the car including bumper, headlights, crash bar, slam panel, radiator, AC condenser, power steering cooler etc. We did have to have the AC system discharged prior to the strip down which cost about £30. We left the front subframe in situ. We had to remove the driveshafts too which required new Hub Nuts on assembly as they're single use.

Your thread mentiones dropping the engine and gearbox on the front subframe. I can't see why you couldn't do this, you just need to be mindful of items connected to the car like wiring, AC pipes, brake servo vacuum line, power steering reservoir, throttle cable, heater hoses, radiator, power steering cooler etc. The subframe bolts might technically be single use bolts.

As for trying to unbolt the AC pump and swing it out of the way, maybe. However, the three bolts that hold it are tricky to access and I'm not sure that the pipes will have the required flexibility. We left the pump attached the engine and just disconnected the pipes from it.

Hope this helps.

[Rover600]

Thanks Matt,


I suppose the big question is how much easier was it to do those service items on the engine while it was out of the car? That's the only reason I'd be doing it really, thankfully not having to swap engines (yet!).



Interesting you left the subframe in situ - I think it normally has to be taken out to do the box, so that would save a bit of time if I can avoid doing that.

[Rover600]

Originally Posted by SD1too

Hello John,

It's a popular choice to renew the water pump when replacing the timing belts. The reason for this is avoiding a lot of work should it fail shortly afterwards; the phrase "peace of mind" is used as justification. However I am currently repairing a wrecked KV6 engine caused by a replacement water pump seizing after just 20,000 miles. It caused the main timing belt to shred (but not snap), completely destroyed the idler wheel, welded the belt to the tensioner pulley and bent all 24 valves.

The quality of the original, factory-fitted water pump should not be underestimated. You'll struggle to find forum reports of failure and there are some very high mileage 75/ZTs around including KV6s.

During my research I discovered that the genuine OE MGR pump has a composite (i.e. plastic) impeller and is still available from DMGRS and it's made in Wales! Aftermarket pumps have a metal impeller which, on the face of it, sounds preferable but this is the type that seized on the Rover 75 KV6 I'm working upon. I've no idea of the brand as there was no identification on it.

So do make your decision carefully John. It's tragic when a perfectly good water pump is thrown away in the hope of buying time then exactly the opposite happens and the engine is wrecked resulting in a much greater and more expensive problem. I acknowledge that this is a very rare occurrence, it's certainly the first time I've encountered it in many decades of car ownership and maintenance, but of concern nonetheless.

Simon

Thanks Simon,


It was something I was aware of, and a concern. Poor quality aftermarket pumps are not isolated to the 75.
On other vehicles I often end up fitting a new waterpump as a matter of course as they are cheap and the seals for the original are often either not available or more expensive than a replacement pump.
However, they are typically driven of an aux belt so its no big deal if they do go wrong. I've had mixed results, certainly some brands are better than others.

Obviously on the 75 there is the potential for serious damage if they seize.

Ours is getting on for 100k on the original pump, so I'm expecting a new pump may well be on the cards but we shall see when I get it apart.
It is losing coolant, which may be also the stat, so I'm also expecting to replace that, but again further investigation is required.


I was looking at the DMGRS pump (Mark pumps i think?) for the likely replacement as these seem to be the best for quality.
Although I believe there has been at least one instance of these failing and shredding a timing belt too. I'm not sure if that was a Mark pump or a different one, and just bad luck.

[Matt_75]

Originally Posted by Rover600

I suppose the big question is how much easier was it to do those service items on the engine while it was out of the car? That's the only reason I'd be doing it really, thankfully not having to swap engines (yet!).

Having done one timing belt in the engine bay and another with the engine out of the car, I'd say it certainly helps but it wouldn't be worth removing the engine just to do the belts. If its coming out for another job, then yes, it makes sense.

The biggest problem I had with doing the belts with the engine in the car was the clearance between the locking tool for the front belt and the AC pipes here:



The tool kept interfering with the pipes. The fit of the tool into the exhaust camshaft was quite loose, so the interference kept pushing the tool upwards and altering the timing of that inlet camshaft ever so slightly. Lifting the engine further did alleviate this a bit though.

The only other clearance problems I recall were socket access here (alleviated by buying some slimmer sockets):



and clearance to get a torx bit on the Aux idler pulley as it's quite close to the chassis leg, alleviated by getting some slimmer tools.