Defence Review

[Borg Warner]

Originally Posted by Astraeus

Don't get me started on that one. We sold the US the lot for about the cost of one of these new things! 130 harriers...gone....for 'peanuts'....


The US have now 'life extended' their Harrier (AV8) fleet until 2024 in the main because of uncertainties about the F35B delivery and capability. Funny how that tied in with us giving them our ones!

Now let us summarise. The US do not know when they are going to get combat ready F35Bs so they are keeping their Harriers until they get them. Now if we had sensible folk at the top we would have Harriers to put on our carriers with combat ready pilots. Now we have nothing but a large gap in capability.

To sum up the F35B. This line was in a recent Pentagon enquiry into the overbudget and way behind delivery date F35B
"It has become clear that it is not a good idea to put an aircraft into production until flight trials have been completed."
Computer simulations are a good starting point but to base an aircrafts ability on this without real flying trials is...well...nuts!

Yet we have stuck all our eggs in this basket. We changed the carriers mid build to do away with catapults and arrestor wires to fit ramps that only the F35B ( or the Harrier of course) can use! At great expense.

Beyond belief

It wasn't 130 it was more like 70 - used for parts, these were the GR9s, FA2s were scrapped finally in 2004?. F35Bs are now combat ready with the USMC, flying off USS Wasp LHD-1 (I think). UK's carriers where designed from the outset as STOVL not CATOBAR. PoW was going to converted but it was deemed too expensive and with a largely untried method of launch so remains with her ramp as does the QE.

Sadly the UK will never be able to afford carriers that it really wants nor the aircraft to fly off them. QE and PoW will be fine ships, a credit to the Royal Navy and worthy of their historic names. The aircraft flying off them will no doubt also be a credit. Both crewed by some of the finest men and women in military service.

Oh dear I appear to have broken my vow of silence. Damn!!! I will slink back to the dark damp cave from which I crawled. My apologies

[Astraeus]

Well, here is where one of our Harriers is. Privately owned and now flying again.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-PHcdn8R4d4

Perhaps that is what they wanted all our pilots to do.

Buy your own Harrier!
We will privide fuel and free hangering on a luxury aircraft carrier
Maitenance available at reduced rates to keep our engineers current.
Free trip to off Syria included.
Subsidised meals on board

Apply [email protected]

[Astraeus]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oT3OHKn0JJw


Says it all..

[Astraeus]

That our Service Personnel are among the best and most committed in the world is not in doubt but they are very badly let down by the idiots that are responsible for running their organisations.

Whether the figures re Harrier disposal are correct or not doesn't get away from the fact we should not have got rid of combat ready aircraft until replacement are worked up to similar standard.

As for the 35Bs being flown in the US they are a million miles away from being an effective, fully combat capable aircraft force. Ours further away. Just look at our own estimation as to when our fleet will be combat capable. Years away!

An example of this are our Typhoon GR4s. How long has the Typhoon been in service for? Are they combat ready and cleared to drop ground munitions yet? That will be a no. It takes years to get an aircraft fully combat ready in sufficient numbers to provide an effective force. It is and will remain utter stupidity to get rid of an effective part of your air firce before a replacement is not only available but worked up. This is no reflection on our flyers be they RAF, Navy or Army but they can only fly aurcraft we have.

I think we both have a similar opinion of our service personnel. My son is one. But as for those that make decisions like thise discussed....clowns and dangerous ones at that.

Chris

[Borg Warner]

Originally Posted by Astraeus

That our Service Personnel are among the best and most committed in the world is not in doubt but they are very badly let down by the idiots that are responsible for running their organisations.

Whether the figures re Harrier disposal are correct or not doesn't get away from the fact we should not have got rid of combat ready aircraft until replacement are worked up to similar standard.

As for the 35Bs being flown in the US they are a million miles away from being an effective, fully combat capable aircraft force. Ours further away. Just look at our own estimation as to when our fleet will be combat capable. Years away!

An example of this are our Typhoon GR4s. How long has the Typhoon been in service for? Are they combat ready and cleared to drop ground munitions yet? That will be a no. It takes years to get an aircraft fully combat ready in sufficient numbers to provide an effective force. It is and will remain utter stupidity to get rid of an effective part of your air firce before a replacement is not only available but worked up. This is no reflection on our flyers be they RAF, Navy or Army but they can only fly aurcraft we have.

I think we both have a similar opinion of our service personnel. My son is one. But as for those that make decisions like thise discussed....clowns and dangerous ones at that.

Chris

Apparently they can?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/u...trikes-in-iraq

http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/typhoon.cfm