Timing belts - Page 3

roverbarmy · 28th August 2018, 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terryf

My V6 2.5 is 16 years old. The belts have been changed twice, with all associated bits. Now has a metal thermostat from Kaiser.
Still done less than 35000 miles.
I have owned the car for 14 years, with 8000 on the clock when I bought it.
Maybe I'm crazy but I don't think so.

Terry

You have a lighter wallet and an easier mind. Enjoy your 75/ZT in good health.

vitesse · 28th August 2018, 09:11

Friend recently came over with his “new” V6 which was making a horrible racket, front belt looked like this:

No date marking visible, nothing stamped visible.

I found I could move the tensioner wheel with a magnetic telescope. Yesterday I saw the remains of the tensioner literally in bits, spread / lodged in various places. Anxious days follow.

Regards

SD1too · 28th August 2018, 11:01

Mike,

I can’t quite tell from your picture; is this the ancillary belt or the timing belt?

Simon

vitesse · 28th August 2018, 11:23

It's the timing belt Simon, the ancillary belt was in shreds, perhaps due to debris from the timing belt tensioner. We found one piece of thin, twisted metal up by the power steering pump, the tensioner bolt with several stripped threads wedged in the sub frame. The timing belt is still in one piece however, the rear belts are in a totally different state, rubberised, almost as if recently changed. Very strange.

Mike

MagicMadjeski · 28th August 2018, 14:05

I was in a similar position last year debating whether to get the cambelt and waterpump changed along with other bits that amounted to around £800. F1 Autocentres and many independents use Payment Assist https://www.payment-assist.co.uk/ they offer 0% APR flexi-payments into 4 equal payments (once per month).

I used that to soften the £800 bill and did so again a 2nd time for 4 new tyres.

SD1too · 28th August 2018, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitesse

... the tensioner bolt with several stripped threads wedged in the sub frame.

This is a very interesting scenario; thanks for posting it Mike. Which tensioner bolt gave way? Was it one of the two securing the hydraulic plunger or the pulley bracket bolt or the bolt within the pulley wheel?

Simon

vitesse · 28th August 2018, 19:31

Simon,

T'was the one within the pulley wheel. No sign of Loctite which I see on every other bolt on the car, the threads weren't totally stripped, damaged in sections is probably more accurate. Why I don't know, partly because I wasn't the mechanic performing the autopsy, but I saw enough of the hammering of the casing caused by pulley wheel - no major damage, just deep scratches. We are more concerned about possible internal damage - time will tell.

Mike

SD1too · 28th August 2018, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitesse

T'was the one within the pulley wheel.

Ahh, that’s the one which on most replacement pulleys is supplied loose.

The innocent owner/mechanic then fits it in good faith and some time down the line ... aargh, the cambelt has given way! Errr, no it hasn’t actually.

This is a very helpful story Mike, thank you.

Your friend has been very lucky that the belt was strong enough to resist the stress it has experienced.

Simon

Comfortably Numb · 29th August 2018, 00:13

I agree that worn/'bouncing' tensioners and seizing water pump and tensioner bearings are the most likely causes of belt failure. I've had one timing belt fail on a Peugeot diesel at 115k (it had never been changed), one on an A4 1.9TDi at 179,000 - previously changed at 60 and 120k, but I think the tensioner hadn't been, and 1 ancilliary belt tensioner bracket badly bent through snatching/rough bearing, and 1 ancilliary belt saved in the nick of time - bouncing due to wear in the alternator freewheel clutch (snatching), again, Audi A4. Try running the engine with the belt cover off, see if it runs smoothly, and how does it look - any sign of cracking on the outside or at the bottoms of teeth, is the outside very shiny, with makers markings completely worn off? All rubber products degenerate with age/heat/ exposure to UV or contaminants. The oily compounds in them which keep them supple, evaporate off with time and make them harder and more brittle which is why, however low the mileage, most manufacturers recommend no longer time interval than 5 years.

28th August 2018, 11:01	#23
SD1too Doesn't do things by halves Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Former Middlesex Posts: 20,510 Thanks: 1,587 Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts	Mike, I can’t quite tell from your picture; is this the ancillary belt or the timing belt? Simon __________________ "Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." Sir Henry Royce.

28th August 2018, 09:11	#22
vitesse I really should get out more....... Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Gävle Posts: 2,556 Thanks: 395 Thanked 823 Times in 652 Posts	Friend recently came over with his “new” V6 which was making a horrible racket, front belt looked like this: No date marking visible, nothing stamped visible. I found I could move the tensioner wheel with a magnetic telescope. Yesterday I saw the remains of the tensioner literally in bits, spread / lodged in various places. Anxious days follow. Regards

28th August 2018, 11:23	#24
vitesse I really should get out more....... Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Gävle Posts: 2,556 Thanks: 395 Thanked 823 Times in 652 Posts	It's the timing belt Simon, the ancillary belt was in shreds, perhaps due to debris from the timing belt tensioner. We found one piece of thin, twisted metal up by the power steering pump, the tensioner bolt with several stripped threads wedged in the sub frame. The timing belt is still in one piece however, the rear belts are in a totally different state, rubberised, almost as if recently changed. Very strange. Mike

28th August 2018, 14:05	#25
MagicMadjeski Newbie Rover 75 Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Crawley Posts: 15 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I was in a similar position last year debating whether to get the cambelt and waterpump changed along with other bits that amounted to around £800. F1 Autocentres and many independents use Payment Assist https://www.payment-assist.co.uk/ they offer 0% APR flexi-payments into 4 equal payments (once per month). I used that to soften the £800 bill and did so again a 2nd time for 4 new tyres.

28th August 2018, 19:31	#27
vitesse I really should get out more....... Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Gävle Posts: 2,556 Thanks: 395 Thanked 823 Times in 652 Posts	Simon, T'was the one within the pulley wheel. No sign of Loctite which I see on every other bolt on the car, the threads weren't totally stripped, damaged in sections is probably more accurate. Why I don't know, partly because I wasn't the mechanic performing the autopsy, but I saw enough of the hammering of the casing caused by pulley wheel - no major damage, just deep scratches. We are more concerned about possible internal damage - time will tell. Mike

29th August 2018, 00:13	#29
Comfortably Numb Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Penrith Posts: 1,336 Thanks: 165 Thanked 303 Times in 241 Posts	I agree that worn/'bouncing' tensioners and seizing water pump and tensioner bearings are the most likely causes of belt failure. I've had one timing belt fail on a Peugeot diesel at 115k (it had never been changed), one on an A4 1.9TDi at 179,000 - previously changed at 60 and 120k, but I think the tensioner hadn't been, and 1 ancilliary belt tensioner bracket badly bent through snatching/rough bearing, and 1 ancilliary belt saved in the nick of time - bouncing due to wear in the alternator freewheel clutch (snatching), again, Audi A4. Try running the engine with the belt cover off, see if it runs smoothly, and how does it look - any sign of cracking on the outside or at the bottoms of teeth, is the outside very shiny, with makers markings completely worn off? All rubber products degenerate with age/heat/ exposure to UV or contaminants. The oily compounds in them which keep them supple, evaporate off with time and make them harder and more brittle which is why, however low the mileage, most manufacturers recommend no longer time interval than 5 years.