|
||
|
||
|
|
![]() |
#1 |
Avid contributor
75 Contemporary SE 2.5 V6 Auto, Rover 45, classic mini and E Niro Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ballymena, Northern Ireland
Posts: 239
Thanks: 25
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
|
![]() I am in the process of re timing my 177hp V6 after a cam change (long story!).
I have been bombarded with all sorts of advice - some good, some not so good. I have reached some conclusions that no doubt many of you will disagree with - but here you are........ 1. Rover produced guidance on belt replacement and unless they are totally wrong this must surely be the definitive guidance. This advocates fitting the front timing belt using tools that determine the position of the inlet cam relative to the crankshaft at the engine 'safe' position. The cam end has a notch that keys it to the tool and there is no room for cam position variation. My conclusion here can only be that the inlet cam is intended to be fixed by the front timing tools and that any argument that the timing is determined by the rear sprocket tool is wrong. 2. The rear sprockets are keyed to the cam ends and can only be fitted in one position. If the rear tool is used to fit the rear belt there is no way that the timing of the rear sprockets can be wrong. The tool will only fit when the two sprockets are correctly aligned. 3. The timing notches on the rear sprockets do not align when the front timing tools are fitted and the car is in the 'safe' position. Hence - if rover meant the rear sprockets to be aligned when the safe position was selected - the rear tool would fit when the front tool was in place. This isn't the case. I have read on a Land Rover forum that the rear tool is intended to do two things - to aid fitting the rear belts - and to hold the rear sprockets when tightening the bolts. This would explain a lot. This all begs the question - are there loads of V6 cars knocking about out there with badly timed engines? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 | |||||||
Doesn't do things by halves
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model. Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Former Middlesex
Posts: 20,673
Thanks: 1,587
Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts
|
![]() It's good to hear from you again Andy. I have a few questions for you!
![]() Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
![]() I'll be doing mine in the coming months. It will be interesting to see if I find the same situation as you have. My valve train hasn't been touched since it left Cowley. Thanks for your continued reports Andy. Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." Sir Henry Royce. |
|||||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Avid contributor
75 Contemporary SE 2.5 V6 Auto, Rover 45, classic mini and E Niro Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ballymena, Northern Ireland
Posts: 239
Thanks: 25
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
|
![]() Simon - "I thought it was the exhaust camshaft which has the notch. Doesn't the inlet camshaft hub have the holes into which the pins on the tool locate?"
My reply - Both cams have notches. The plate on the front of the inlet cam, into which the tool fits, is keyed into the notch. Simon - "As I understand it, each front tool can be fitted to both its camshafts only when the inlet camshaft is in a particular position. Am I correct Andy?" My reply - That is correct. Simon - "Doesn't that mean that the correct alignment determines the relative positions of the inlet and exhaust camshafts? If these can only be in one position, then isn't that the correct timing position (assuming that the crankshaft is locked in the safe position)?" My reply - The inlet and exhaust cams are connected only by the rear belts. The rear pulleys are keyed into notches in the two cam ends. The rear timing tool will only fit when the two pulleys are correctly aligned. Simon - "The primary belt is fitted and front tooling removed before renewing the rear belts, which is when the rear sprockets are fitted in the aligned position as you said in your point 2. Their official method seems to say exactly this." My reply - I agree I have based my conclusions on pure logic and the use of the tools. Those who claim the rear pulleys should be aligned when the engine is in safe mode cannot have been using the front and rear tools. I have tried it and the front and rear tools simply do not fit at the same time. Having said all this, I am extremely nervous about relying on the front tool to time everything, given all the conflicting advice that I have been given. I don't intend to reassemble and start my engine until I'm absolutely sure I'm right!!! Last edited by ballymenaman; 6th November 2016 at 12:00.. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Posted a thing or two
Ford Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Portmahomack
Posts: 1,330
Thanks: 545
Thanked 317 Times in 193 Posts
|
![]() I did final checking with a laser. Found it a very good method
Nige |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | ||
This is my second home
Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 11,593
Thanks: 3,470
Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
![]() Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | ||||||
Doesn't do things by halves
Rover 75 2.5 Connoisseur Auto (1999) Dealer launch model. Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Former Middlesex
Posts: 20,673
Thanks: 1,587
Thanked 3,749 Times in 3,181 Posts
|
![]() Thanks for your reply Andy. My further thoughts:
Quote:
Now if I looked at the rear sprockets, I would expect the marks on those to be aligned but you say that they are not. Can you confirm that you're using the appropriate version of the front tools for your engine (colour coded silver I believe)? Quote:
Is the mark on the inlet camshaft rear sprocket in the position shown in Ennine's photograph (nine o'clock)? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
![]() Simon
__________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." Sir Henry Royce. Last edited by SD1too; 6th November 2016 at 16:16.. |
||||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
This is my second home
R75 Saloon. Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: France/or Devon.
Posts: 14,003
Thanks: 3,851
Thanked 2,167 Times in 1,816 Posts
|
![]() All of these posts make very interesting reading.
Can't wait for the various outcomes.--- ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() PS. It makes me realise just how lucky I am to have a DIESEL.-- ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
I really should get out more.......
Vauxhall Insignia CDTi; MG TF 135 Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 2,970
Thanks: 942
Thanked 378 Times in 297 Posts
|
![]() BANG!!! Pieces of valve and piston everywhere...
Yes, there's a lot to be said for chains...
__________________
Past cars: MGB GT; Escort 1300 Sport; Vauxhall VX4/90; Marina Coupe TC; Celica ST (1972); Montego Turbo; Astra GTE 16V; Astra GSI 16V; Golf GTI 16V (Mk II); Sierra XR4x4 Estate; BMW 325i (E30); BMW M3 3.0; BMW M3 3.2 Evo. Left some of the more embarrassing ones out. And about 30 motorbikes. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Regular poster
rover 75 saloon Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: barnsley
Posts: 33
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
|
![]() when you've fitted the front 'inlet' belt, leave the tool in position and remove the rear belts. when you do this the camshaft will move to an unloaded spot because of the valve spring pressures. when refitting the exhaust belts you have to move the camshaft to align with the pulley by using the hex bolts on the front end of the camshaft tool.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |
Avid contributor
75 Contemporary SE 2.5 V6 Auto, Rover 45, classic mini and E Niro Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Ballymena, Northern Ireland
Posts: 239
Thanks: 25
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
|
![]() Quote:
Here is my logic - 1. the front belt links the crankshaft to the cams. 2. The front timing tools set the position of the inlet cams relative to the front belt. 3. The rear inlet cam pulleys can only be fitted in one position as they are keyed. 4. The rear exhaust pulleys are also keyed. 5. the rear belts connect the rear pulleys. Ergo - the front belt times the engine. The fact that the front and rear tools do not fit simultaneously supports my line of thinking. If I am wrong I have to ask - why would Rover have produced guidance that advocates fitting the front belt with a tool that determines AND FIXES the position of the inlet cam if only the marks on the rear pulleys are used to time the engine? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|